Philosophy Do you believe in the existence/non-existence of free will? If so or not, why?

Loser
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2024
Messages
542
I personally believe in free will and divine predetermination after debating the existence of free will for roughly a week, I've come to the conclusion that both can exist as explained here:



In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful

Divine providence—the idea that everything has already been decreed by the Creator from eternity—has troubled theologians and philosophers for centuries. How can we reconcile the two apparently contradictory facts that Allah has absolute power and sovereignty over all creation, and that at the same time we are responsible for our actions? Are we forced to do what we do, or are our choices meaningful?
The question of divine providence, also known as divine decree or predestination, led to one of the earliest sectarian schisms in the Muslim community, between the Qadarites, who believed in absolute human free will (Allah has no control over us), and the Jabarites, who believed in absolute determinism and fatalism (we have no control over our actions). Each of these groups developed an extreme and misguided theology. If Allah has no control, then why call upon Allah in prayer? And if we have no control over our actions and fate, why do any good deeds at all?
Not only was this question a sharp controversy in early Islamic history, it has been an important issue throughout history for both religious and secular reasons. The ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle wrote seriously on the topic over two thousand years ago because of its implications for understanding order in the universe, the origin of life, human freedom, and happiness.


1.

Today, under the heading of determinism, it is the subject of complex academic debate, in scientific disciplines such as mathematics, physics, biology, psychology, and the social sciences.

2.

Clearly, our understanding of destiny plays a decisive role in both our view of the world and, perhaps more importantly, our behavior in it. The myriad of philosophical conundrums that arise from this issue have led many, including Muslims, to experience doubt in their faith. How then does Islam solve this dilemma?
The Qur’an and Sunnah (prophetic traditions and practices of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) take a middle path between the two historical extremes, upholding both Allah’s sovereignty and humankind’s responsibility. From a purely rational standpoint, these two aspects seem mutually exclusive; in other words, that they cannot both be true. However, we have to remember that Allah exists outside of time and space, beyond the cosmic veil in the Unseen. By contrast, human beings can only conceive of realities within the framework of time and space. Divine providence is a reality that exists beyond time and space, which means we are simply incapable of conceiving it with our limited rational faculties.
For this reason, Allah communicated the reality of providence using the tools of language—in particular, literary imagery (al-taṣwīr al-fannī)—which in the Qur’anic sciences involves “expressing a mental meaning by use of sensory and visualized pictures.”

3.

These images are the Pen, the Preserved Tablet, and the angelic records of deeds. They articulate the nature of providence, that Allah has complete control over what is decreed from pre-eternity and what is later expunged. These images are not fictional nor merely metaphorical. On the contrary, they constitute profound truths in the universe and are realities in themselves. While all things have already been decreed from eternity, Allah has the power to change destiny based upon the choices we make. We are, indeed, morally responsible for our actions and our free will entails a measure of control to determine our ultimate fate, limited under Allah’s sovereignty.
 
Last edited:
Loser
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2024
Messages
542
tbh I didn't understand much since I am not a Muslim nor familiar with any abrahamic faiths/ideologies

I do believe in free will though to a certain extent
In what aspect? Also what didn't you understand from the thread?
 
Joined
May 26, 2024
Messages
1,954
Divine providence—the idea that everything has already been decreed by the Creator from eternity—has troubled theologians and philosophers for centuries. How can we reconcile the two apparently contradictory facts that Allah has absolute power and sovereignty over all creation, and that at the same time we are responsible for our actions? Are we forced to do what we do, or are our choices meaningful?
The question of divine providence, also known as divine decree or predestination, led to one of the earliest sectarian schisms in the Muslim community, between the Qadarites, who believed in absolute human free will (Allah has no control over us), and the Jabarites, who believed in absolute determinism and fatalism (we have no control over our actions). Each of these groups developed an extreme and misguided theology. If Allah has no control, then why call upon Allah in prayer? And if we have no control over our actions and fate, why do any good deeds at all?
Not only was this question a sharp controversy in early Islamic history, it has been an important issue throughout history for both religious and secular reasons. The ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle wrote seriously on the topic over two thousand years ago because of its implications for understanding order in the universe, the origin of life, human freedom, and happiness.
These images are the Pen, the Preserved Tablet, and the angelic records of deeds. They articulate the nature of providence, that Allah has complete control over what is decreed from pre-eternity and what is later expunged. These images are not fictional nor merely metaphorical. On the contrary, they constitute profound truths in the universe and are realities in themselves. While all things have already been decreed from eternity, Allah has the power to change destiny based upon the choices we make. We are, indeed, morally responsible for our actions and our free will entails a measure of control to determine our ultimate fate, limited under Allah’s sovereignty.

Mostly these, but I'm not that smart. I can't really digest stuff like philosophy and stuff 😅
 
Loser
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2024
Messages
542
Mostly these, but I'm not that smart. I can't really digest stuff like philosophy and stuff 😅
No problem brocel, I know what it's like to not be able to digest "high iq" topics as I used to struggle with contemplating/pondering on complex topics and math.

As for the pen, it was the first thing created by allah (god/jehovah/elohim in other abrahamic religions) with which he wrote all of existence. (Allah is neither bound by time and space as it is his creation nor is he inside of them).

The preserved tablet is a heavenly record of all that has happened and will happen (i.e. predestination).

The angelic records of deeds are of course the records of good and bad deeds kept by the angels.

Humans aren't perfect and we make mistakes as that literally what makes us human, hope you understood a little better bhai!!
 
Joined
May 26, 2024
Messages
1,954
No problem brocel, I know what it's like to not be able to digest "high iq" topics as I used to struggle with contemplating/pondering on complex topics and math.

As for the pen, it was the first thing created by allah (god/jehovah/elohim in other abrahamic religions) with which he wrote all of existence. (Allah is neither bound by time and space as it is his creation nor is he inside of them).

The preserved tablet is a heavenly record of all that has happened and will happen (i.e. predestination).

The angelic records of deeds are of course the records of good and bad deeds kept by the angels.

Humans aren't perfect and we make mistakes as that literally what makes us human, hope you understood a little better bhai!!
Thanks for this, yeah, it clears up a lot lol

I was looking at it too literally it seems 🤣
 
Loser
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2024
Messages
542
Thanks for this, yeah, it clears up a lot lol

I was looking at it too literally it seems 🤣
Religion and philosophy are quite complex topics that even I get confused by sometimes, theology requires a lot of logical thinking which I'm either absolutely terrible or great at.
 
Loser
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2024
Messages
542
I for the most part believe in determinism. Your choices and actions in life seemingly all have a root. A lot of my shortcomings are due to genetics, environment, the people I was forced to be surrounded with in my area.
I can relate, I still have to try to push through even though its feeling more and more impossible everyday.
 
Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2024
Messages
46
i dont think u can ever truly be free to many boundries hold us back from doing what we want. yes i could lets say rob a bank but id first have to get the things to do so and even after it doesnt come without consequence, prison if u git caught basicly strippin u of all free will u think u had or not being caught but in turn being a fugitive.

but then again thats on bigger scale and on a smaller one its defiantly there, ig free will is not following social norms and doing what u want but accepting that you could lose it at any givin moment "rules are just helpful guidlines for stupid ppl who cnt make up their minds"

is this water? idk





 
Activity
So far there's no one here
Top