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<blockquote data-quote="Ishmael" data-source="post: 73634" data-attributes="member: 532">Yeah! For me, it got to a point where there were too many things that coalesced in Christ where I literally could not ever deny the divinity or &#039;supernatural&#039; part of Him. It just simply became an undeniable fact of life for me; Yehoshua - a seemingly ordinary man from Nazareth - suffered needlessly for me. He was executed brutally. Tortured horrifically. Beaten, flogged and stabbed. Take away all divinity. This guy, all we know about Him historically and archeologically - outside of stories that even the Jews say are too far - is that He was a genuinely good person who did all He could to spread the true meaning behind the archaic rules of the ancient Hebrews and to spread the love found within to everyone else. Take out every miracle, supernatural circumstance, whatever. I still would follow that man over any other. He had nothing and gave up his LIFE for me, even if it was for naught. That man deserves everything I can give and then more. All the other spiritual stuff is more meat for my bones. More food for my belly. It feels good to trudge through; it gives my information gathering a purpose and use outside of Reddit fun facts. But the truth is that none of it matters when you know that Jesus died for you and He loves you. In my studying today and yesterday actually I learned of some Pauline-hostile works written early on that were specifically oriented at the theological disagreement between Paul and Peter; Torah observance. Both parties got it right but I think Paul was on a different level than they were and they couldn&#039;t see what he was saying. Paul was very intelligent, at least from what I read in his letters. His education as well is very surprising; it seems to me that he had every reason to hate Christians and his conversion is telling; the fact that people still wouldn&#039;t listen to him in spite of his history and conversion story shows where the ego was attacked. They certainly felt that by Paul telling them that Gentiles did not have to observe the Torah the way they do that he was implying that their entire lives built around Torah was completely worthless and a waste of their time; for if a Gentile can get into Heaven without Torah observance then why should I?The answer is a bit more complex and Paul knew this, but for some reason the framing never came about. I don&#039;t want to get into too much of a tangent on this topic but if you&#039;d like I can expand upon it more.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ishmael, post: 73634, member: 532"] Yeah! For me, it got to a point where there were too many things that coalesced in Christ where I literally could not ever deny the divinity or 'supernatural' part of Him. It just simply became an undeniable fact of life for me; Yehoshua - a seemingly ordinary man from Nazareth - suffered needlessly for me. He was executed brutally. Tortured horrifically. Beaten, flogged and stabbed. Take away all divinity. This guy, all we know about Him historically and archeologically - outside of stories that even the Jews say are too far - is that He was a genuinely good person who did all He could to spread the true meaning behind the archaic rules of the ancient Hebrews and to spread the love found within to everyone else. Take out every miracle, supernatural circumstance, whatever. I still would follow that man over any other. He had nothing and gave up his LIFE for me, even if it was for naught. That man deserves everything I can give and then more. All the other spiritual stuff is more meat for my bones. More food for my belly. It feels good to trudge through; it gives my information gathering a purpose and use outside of Reddit fun facts. But the truth is that none of it matters when you know that Jesus died for you and He loves you. In my studying today and yesterday actually I learned of some Pauline-hostile works written early on that were specifically oriented at the theological disagreement between Paul and Peter; Torah observance. Both parties got it right but I think Paul was on a different level than they were and they couldn't see what he was saying. Paul was very intelligent, at least from what I read in his letters. His education as well is very surprising; it seems to me that he had every reason to hate Christians and his conversion is telling; the fact that people still wouldn't listen to him in spite of his history and conversion story shows where the ego was attacked. They certainly felt that by Paul telling them that Gentiles did not have to observe the Torah the way they do that he was implying that their entire lives built around Torah was completely worthless and a waste of their time; for if a Gentile can get into Heaven without Torah observance then why should I? The answer is a bit more complex and Paul knew this, but for some reason the framing never came about. I don't want to get into too much of a tangent on this topic but if you'd like I can expand upon it more. [/QUOTE]

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