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/rps/ - Religion, Philosophy & Spirituality
Nature is God
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<blockquote data-quote="Whitespace" data-source="post: 44214" data-attributes="member: 386"><p>You ever hear about the Prisoner's Dilemma? While it is more intuitive that a human being will act in his self-interest to the detriment of others, the best strategy to ensure survival is cooperation.</p><p></p><p>Even speaking in Darwinist terms, selfishness is defective. The reason humans have survived well is not only because we have opposable thumbs and brains to make tools but also because we have an unparalleled-ly complex system of cooperation. You'd expect places like Arabia or the Arctic to be the places where "every man is for himself", but no; the more hostile the environments, the more cooperative a society is.</p><p></p><p>It isn't just me, ask Ibn Khaldun; Berber and Arab tribes who lived in the desert were easily able to conquer cities where survival was trivial. Or, for a European example, Medieval Iceland, Yes, that cold, volcanic island in the far north, where voluntary cooperation was woven into society in lieu of a centralized state. Or even Germanic barbarians overcoming the Romans. Or even now in Latin America where communities bind together with guns, creating informal police units to protect themselves from cartels, of which the government is too weak or unwilling to protect them. Applying a shear force on society makes its units closer to one another.</p><p></p><p>This is not to say at all that individual strength is meaningless, but there's a reason why a lion may often lose when put against a gaggle of skinny, hairy simians with sticks and rocks.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, in what manner is life "better" than another? A lion can easily take a human being down. Does that make the lion better? A bunch of humans are intelligent enough to get together and take a lion down. Does this mean that the human is better? I do not discount that survival is only ensured with those who are able to survive, but different traits work differently in different situations.</p><p></p><p>Why do you think there are different species of bears or different races of humans? Why do you think humans in hotter climates developed melanin to save themselves from the sun's UV rays? It's a concept that I agree with you on, still, but I feel it is substantially more complex than you let on.</p><p></p><p>If you remove all civilization from humanity and leave man in his most primeval state, all man will do is rebuild civilization. Because civilization and morality IS a part of nature, and IS a part of our survival. Religion isn't created because people are bored and survival is trivial but for the opposite reason: by universalizing and generalizing nature, you're able to make it intuitive and more easily comprehensible.</p><p></p><p>I do believe in a God beyond all existence, but the entire universe reflects Him. Every choice in nature, from that human drive for cooperation and kindness to a lion's sharp teeth chewing through an antelope's gristle and cartilage, is a reflection of that. He exists within the moral and amoral, every choice is His, including the survival of the fittest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Whitespace, post: 44214, member: 386"] You ever hear about the Prisoner's Dilemma? While it is more intuitive that a human being will act in his self-interest to the detriment of others, the best strategy to ensure survival is cooperation. Even speaking in Darwinist terms, selfishness is defective. The reason humans have survived well is not only because we have opposable thumbs and brains to make tools but also because we have an unparalleled-ly complex system of cooperation. You'd expect places like Arabia or the Arctic to be the places where "every man is for himself", but no; the more hostile the environments, the more cooperative a society is. It isn't just me, ask Ibn Khaldun; Berber and Arab tribes who lived in the desert were easily able to conquer cities where survival was trivial. Or, for a European example, Medieval Iceland, Yes, that cold, volcanic island in the far north, where voluntary cooperation was woven into society in lieu of a centralized state. Or even Germanic barbarians overcoming the Romans. Or even now in Latin America where communities bind together with guns, creating informal police units to protect themselves from cartels, of which the government is too weak or unwilling to protect them. Applying a shear force on society makes its units closer to one another. This is not to say at all that individual strength is meaningless, but there's a reason why a lion may often lose when put against a gaggle of skinny, hairy simians with sticks and rocks. Furthermore, in what manner is life "better" than another? A lion can easily take a human being down. Does that make the lion better? A bunch of humans are intelligent enough to get together and take a lion down. Does this mean that the human is better? I do not discount that survival is only ensured with those who are able to survive, but different traits work differently in different situations. Why do you think there are different species of bears or different races of humans? Why do you think humans in hotter climates developed melanin to save themselves from the sun's UV rays? It's a concept that I agree with you on, still, but I feel it is substantially more complex than you let on. If you remove all civilization from humanity and leave man in his most primeval state, all man will do is rebuild civilization. Because civilization and morality IS a part of nature, and IS a part of our survival. Religion isn't created because people are bored and survival is trivial but for the opposite reason: by universalizing and generalizing nature, you're able to make it intuitive and more easily comprehensible. I do believe in a God beyond all existence, but the entire universe reflects Him. Every choice in nature, from that human drive for cooperation and kindness to a lion's sharp teeth chewing through an antelope's gristle and cartilage, is a reflection of that. He exists within the moral and amoral, every choice is His, including the survival of the fittest. [/QUOTE]
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