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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ishmael" data-source="post: 86869" data-attributes="member: 532">I've never heard this, where I have heard everything else you've mentioned. I disagree on a lot of the specific points you've listed, but not entirely on the idea that Gnosticism gets some things right.I have been shown that there's a similar concept in place where people are to be consumed by evil in the 'loosh farm' sense. I can also agree with the different 'essences' in some degree. What I have been shown is a system where the human body/humanity itself is not the 'evil' thing; but rather every sin accumulates weight on the world. Yours and everyone else's. And that weight crushes everyone who hasn't given it up. The more you sin, the more you're crushed. The worse the world becomes, the more you're crushed. The consumption is the counterfeit system, by Satan (The Adversary/Accuser), the Beast or whatever evil title you want to apply. You consume more from the thing that consumes to produce as if that is a means to an end. God on the other hand is generative. There are many examples of the power of God being an 'unlimited energy source' and this is mirrored in many other theological observations across the board but is present in the Bible as well; the Burning Bush is one. The main Gnostic formula sees the Beast-consumption system and they technically attribute it correctly too; to the evil guy. But the evil guy did not make the world, as far as I am aware.To the essence part, I can only go so far to support it as the parable of talents goes. God expects more out of some people and thus their capacity might be greater. They might be tempted differently. Their path might be more specific and require more from them. Is there maybe a default state of humans that's kind of stupid? Sure. NPC behavior certainly is something that I have encountered in real life. But Jesus has shown me that we cannot simply write off people, even if they are literally spiritually incompetent (Literally, not a figurative judgement that is imposed.) Everyone has a path to salvation if they take it. I can get into more specifics, but anyone and everyone can be someone God can use and call for, you just have to be willing to listen. If *humans* are made in the image of God, that includes all of them. I myself cannot have contempt for the people who simply do not know better and maybe if nurtured correctly could have known.I disagree about the Demiurge/Satan being evil from the beginning and align with the fall concept. I could not explain to you fully why this is how it is, but it seems that God decided to set the world up in a specific ontology/hierarchy with other beings that evidently had free will. They were assigned to a specific job and decided not to do it and would rather rebel. They saw what was physically possible meddling with the creation and wanted it for themselves. Hebrew records them in their own fashion but other cultures recorded what we call their mythology and often they line up with incredible precision theologically and conceptually. Especially if you look at the cultures from the perspective of the recipient of a poser god-fallen angel.I haven't heard this before as stated previously, so I would like to look into it more. There is something here that I believe has been shown to be that follows a similar register, but it's less of a "Contract with Satan" and more of a continual, specific orientation using Moses as the icon/idol that funnels into Satan. Most people fail to see that parts of OT are history books, written by the people who claim they know what God thinks and says. They will say "God did this for this reason" and "God said XYZ" when they know nothing. They were recording what they believed. God is in everything to these people; of course He's in the battles too. Scrutiny is important, and asking God for answers cannot go wrong.On the killing, I agree that there's a problem with that and God shouldn't by logic be ordering this. To me, the call to kill is "From God" from the perspective of the person writing it. That would make it a recorded transmission of corruption. If aspects of what got preserved clearly go against the intentions God set forth, that tells you something went wrong in the preservation -- possibly even post-edits made because later Kabballah or other traditions that wanted Moses to be more reflective of the figure they were building on him. Corruption downstream doesn't convict the source. Without that logic, all of 1 John has to be thrown out because of the Comma Johanneum. It's also why the Song of Songs/Solomon is in the Bible when it's clearly not supposed to be, corruption downstream. Rabbi Akiva really wanted us to read this one, guys.The 'entity' or nature or whatever you want (I say the Messiah Spirit or the Spirit of God) to call it that inhabited/unlocked inside of Jesus at the baptism, the Logos/Davar (Word) is as old as you say. But the person -- the human being that existed and that was living the life that we are intended to imitate -- obviously is not. Jesus, once given the Messiah Spirit was made a perfect combination of Love and Discipline as a person. God already is the perfect combination of something similar; Logic and Emotion -- two halves that make up the logical/mathematical/physical world we live in and the emotional/subconscious/spiritual part we don't see.I say Love and Discipline because they are the physical and human manifestations, at least what I can think of that represent what I was shown. The human part of Jesus was already disciplined in the ways of God. One spiritual enlightenment and the Spirit was bestowed upon Him, the unity became perfect but still required the correct orientation. Jesus was still a human and could be tempted; otherwise the wilderness temptation is theater and nonsense. It requires the human part touching God to be completely of God as intended. I wont go as far as to say you can get your own Messiah Spirit; but you can receive something from God if you are able to orient and discipline yourself properly.Obviously I touched on this a bit in the other quote. Jesus on every level aside from the specific bestowment is equal to us and that is the entire point. You cannot imitate a god/God. I can pretty much agree with the next part due to previous statements. He accepts worship because He was given authority to receive it; but being the icon of humility He does not want it. God provided everything on earth, especially the gifts of miracles He provided. The thing that people worship Him for was not of His own doing. Only under very specific circumstances did Jesus ever try to say He was actually God, and even then it was not in an explicit manner literally saying "I am God!". The main quoting is "I and my Father are One." of course, which is not even one of those circumstances. In an eastern theological context, this is talking about pure alignment. 'There might as well be no difference; but obviously there still is.' is the concept. It's a semantical game in a degree that is similar to Talmudic Jews and how they try/have tried to argue, hence their entire reliance on the Law and the letter of it.</blockquote>

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