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Tartarus
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<blockquote data-quote="wait whattt? :o" data-source="post: 74826" data-attributes="member: 564"><p>I am not upset at you, but I understand my language was a bit harsh. If that's how I come off, I will refrain. My fault on that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. You didn't simply say something right but "didn't go into more detail". You framed and made a clear point that:</p><p></p><p>You made sure to frame it in the lenses of trauma and/or hurt. I said you were right about a specific thing, not that your framing was right. Your framing was wrong because it was too reductive, and I cited why. So your understanding is already faulty to begin with because it is based on the wrong premises.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What does this even mean? Feels like you are not making a point here. "Denying gender". The whole point of this is to attempt to find out if the person has gender dysphoria or not (through therapy), and THEN attempt to treat it OR redirect to another therapist if the problem is something else. There is no denial of gender here, because if they denied gender, then what are they even discussing here? Are we even talking about the same thing?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't buy this tbh. You made a clear point and you went for a specific framing that treatment of gender dysphoria should be done through therapy while modern treatment of gender dysphoria was erroneously done through gender-affirming care. You weren't doing some "effect". You were just being wrong. But I accept your apology. At least you realize your approach was incorrect here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, let's address this unfortunately high number of suicidal ideation in trans folks.</p><p>Suicidal ideation, in research, is a more critical construct for its predictive power for suicidal attempts.</p><p></p><p>It is also unfortunately the case that research on suicide risk among trans folks is meager as one brief literature review article comments:</p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5649411/" target="_blank">Suicide Risk Among Transgender People: A Prevalent Problem in Critical Need of Empirical and Theoretical Research</a></p><p></p><p>However, there is still research. One research study shows an interesting finding:</p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4713016/" target="_blank">Predictors of Suicidal Ideation in a Statewide Sample of Transgender Individuals</a></p><p></p><p>The same study proposes this explanation:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Also, to credit [USER=25]@GripMaxxing[/USER], the study DOES affirm there are higher SI in FtM individuals than MtF:</p><p></p><p></p><p>The statistics is in the paper, by the way. The statistics is presented in a table so I didn't bother copying it here since it would take too much space.</p><p></p><p>I would get into the discussion and the theoretical perspectives that the literature review article provided but I feel this is getting too lengthy and I am afraid I am putting too much effort for someone that, at least in my opinion, does not show much enthusiasm in actually engaging with this. So instead, I will dump this part because it addresses something you said earlier:</p><p></p><p></p><p>But the brief literature review article says:</p><p></p><p>This is in the "Correlates of suicide ideation".</p><p>Now, "potentially" does some lifting there, I admit, but you can now see why people not being "themselves" is not enough. It's not JUST the confirmation, but also the discrimination and violence they experience as a result of transitioning. The statement above shows that "gender identity acceptance and disclosure" is a potentially protective factor against suicidal ideation, and THAT makes sense.</p><p></p><p>Edit: forget to add a little tidbit addressing another point you made</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wait whattt? :o, post: 74826, member: 564"] I am not upset at you, but I understand my language was a bit harsh. If that's how I come off, I will refrain. My fault on that. No. You didn't simply say something right but "didn't go into more detail". You framed and made a clear point that: You made sure to frame it in the lenses of trauma and/or hurt. I said you were right about a specific thing, not that your framing was right. Your framing was wrong because it was too reductive, and I cited why. So your understanding is already faulty to begin with because it is based on the wrong premises. What does this even mean? Feels like you are not making a point here. "Denying gender". The whole point of this is to attempt to find out if the person has gender dysphoria or not (through therapy), and THEN attempt to treat it OR redirect to another therapist if the problem is something else. There is no denial of gender here, because if they denied gender, then what are they even discussing here? Are we even talking about the same thing? I don't buy this tbh. You made a clear point and you went for a specific framing that treatment of gender dysphoria should be done through therapy while modern treatment of gender dysphoria was erroneously done through gender-affirming care. You weren't doing some "effect". You were just being wrong. But I accept your apology. At least you realize your approach was incorrect here. Okay, let's address this unfortunately high number of suicidal ideation in trans folks. Suicidal ideation, in research, is a more critical construct for its predictive power for suicidal attempts. It is also unfortunately the case that research on suicide risk among trans folks is meager as one brief literature review article comments: Source: [URL='https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5649411/']Suicide Risk Among Transgender People: A Prevalent Problem in Critical Need of Empirical and Theoretical Research[/URL] However, there is still research. One research study shows an interesting finding: Source: [URL='https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4713016/']Predictors of Suicidal Ideation in a Statewide Sample of Transgender Individuals[/URL] The same study proposes this explanation: Also, to credit [USER=25]@GripMaxxing[/USER], the study DOES affirm there are higher SI in FtM individuals than MtF: The statistics is in the paper, by the way. The statistics is presented in a table so I didn't bother copying it here since it would take too much space. I would get into the discussion and the theoretical perspectives that the literature review article provided but I feel this is getting too lengthy and I am afraid I am putting too much effort for someone that, at least in my opinion, does not show much enthusiasm in actually engaging with this. So instead, I will dump this part because it addresses something you said earlier: But the brief literature review article says: This is in the "Correlates of suicide ideation". Now, "potentially" does some lifting there, I admit, but you can now see why people not being "themselves" is not enough. It's not JUST the confirmation, but also the discrimination and violence they experience as a result of transitioning. The statement above shows that "gender identity acceptance and disclosure" is a potentially protective factor against suicidal ideation, and THAT makes sense. Edit: forget to add a little tidbit addressing another point you made [/QUOTE]
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