Personal Experience Illusion of permanent self. Very painful experience.

[Two-jay]

I was listening to songs and in a very subtle moment I began to see how identity is something that is fabricated from instant to instant giving the illusion of a permanent being that is not really there. It was one of the most brutal experiences I've ever had because it felt like witnessing your own death. I was crying and screaming. Brutal.

Everything, absolutely all the information the senses receive manufactures the illusion of a permanent self. Emotions, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, all of these things freeze with time creeping in, giving the illusion that it has always been the same person who has been experiencing life. When in reality death and life happen from instant to instant.

Actually at one point it occurred to me this duality that:

1 year seeing the illusion of a permanent self > 100 years not seeing the illusion of a permanent self.

But it's that in reality both are the same thing. Is this the Buddha nature, the one that is always present?

@Tabula Rasa @Sovereign

 

[Tabula Rasa]

yeah it's like theseus' ship, no river being the same at a given point

 

[Mentally Lost Cel]

I was listening to songs and in a very subtle moment I began to see how identity is something that is fabricated from instant to instant giving the illusion of a permanent being that is not really there. It was one of the most brutal experiences I've ever had because it felt like witnessing your own death. I was crying and screaming. Brutal.

Everything, absolutely all the information the senses receive manufactures the illusion of a permanent self. Emotions, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, all of these things freeze with time creeping in, giving the illusion that it has always been the same person who has been experiencing life. When in reality death and life happen from instant to instant.

Actually at one point it occurred to me this duality that:

1 year seeing the illusion of a permanent self > 100 years not seeing the illusion of a permanent self.

But it's that in reality both are the same thing. Is this the Buddha nature, the one that is always present?

@Tabula Rasa @Sovereign

Schizo

 

[Zygo=cheekbone]

It is you dulling the DMN through breathwork etc. that makes the brain strive for energy efficiency again, aka its metaheuristics is disabled (For the time being). Meaning conceptual labels are stripped away (Its not just yourself percieving "yourself" differently, you percieve everything you interact with differently aka your mode of cognition is no longer object oriented). As you can tell the brain wants to be in energy equilibrium and so if you stop doing these practicies you will once again go back to your notion of permanent self. This is just the neurochemical/ thermodynamic perspective of course. Buddhist doctrines on this aspect are as multifarious as their schools. I think it is enough to understand the utilty of such a mode of being rather than dwell too long on the metaphysics behind it, unless of course one is sufficiently compelled to do so.

 

[Asgard]

Me, I, will be born to a handsome human body. One day. And you will cry. Rest assured of that.

 

[LOOKISM-LOGIC]

I was listening to songs and in a very subtle moment I began to see how identity is something that is fabricated from instant to instant giving the illusion of a permanent being that is not really there. It was one of the most brutal experiences I've ever had because it felt like witnessing your own death. I was crying and screaming. Brutal.

Everything, absolutely all the information the senses receive manufactures the illusion of a permanent self. Emotions, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, all of these things freeze with time creeping in, giving the illusion that it has always been the same person who has been experiencing life. When in reality death and life happen from instant to instant.

Actually at one point it occurred to me this duality that:

1 year seeing the illusion of a permanent self > 100 years not seeing the illusion of a permanent self.

But it's that in reality both are the same thing. Is this the Buddha nature, the one that is always present?

@Tabula Rasa @Sovereign

Identity or permanence of yourself in the present is never constant, it is constantly being remanufactured subtly and overtime enormous alterings occur, there is an overwhelming sense of transience an almost unreal feeling to the present in relation to the past and future when scrutinised.

Identity is unusual, for instance brain tumours can change a man so can head injuries. To the afflicted they accept their current altered self and have no aggressive recoil to the change, the past them is dead. Its a weird curtain to look behind.

This concept is like a train ride where you dreamily look at the view from the window. On the train the future is guaranteed but you are stuck in the present enacting some fated line of actions to fulfil the future, the view in the present moment means something to you but it soon passes and looses much significance, the future is forced to happen and with it a new present and old present moment… I shall now pass the dutchie

I feel my stream of consciousness although heavily summarised tackles the concept of the present and time in a concrete way, a prelude.

 

[LOOKISM-LOGIC]

It is you dulling the DMN through breathwork etc. that makes the brain strive for energy efficiency again, aka its metaheuristics is disabled (For the time being). Meaning conceptual labels are stripped away (Its not just yourself percieving "yourself" differently, you percieve everything you interact with differently aka your mode of cognition is no longer object oriented). As you can tell the brain wants to be in energy equilibrium and so if you stop doing these practicies you will once again go back to your notion of permanent self. This is just the neurochemical/ thermodynamic perspective of course. Buddhist doctrines on this aspect are as multifarious as their schools. I think it is enough to understand the utilty of such a mode of being rather than dwell too long on the metaphysics behind it, unless of course one is sufficiently compelled to do so.

It all goes back to biology, brutal, can never let a man drift dreamily through meandering metaphysical concepts and think magically, it really is just neurochems and shit. Worth saying one could argue there is nothing outside of perception though.

 

[Two-jay]

It all goes back to biology, brutal, can never let a man drift dreamily through meandering metaphysical concepts and think magically, it really is just neurochems and shit. Worth saying one could argue there is nothing outside of perception though.

Philosophical pessimism and non-duality posts I recommend reading:





Agree with Nietzsche on this:

Nietzsche fundamentally critiques traditional metaphysics, arguing it relies on a flawed notion of objective reality and a "will to truth" that masks a deeper, instinctual drive for power. He sees metaphysical systems as human constructions, not reflections of a true world, and views the pursuit of metaphysical truths as a form of self-deception.

 

[autistic_tendencies]

You should read power of now by eckart tole he talks about this
The only real self is your -being which is beyond mind and physical form

 

[Sovereign]

I was listening to songs and in a very subtle moment I began to see how identity is something that is fabricated from instant to instant giving the illusion of a permanent being that is not really there. It was one of the most brutal experiences I've ever had because it felt like witnessing your own death. I was crying and screaming. Brutal.

Everything, absolutely all the information the senses receive manufactures the illusion of a permanent self. Emotions, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, all of these things freeze with time creeping in, giving the illusion that it has always been the same person who has been experiencing life. When in reality death and life happen from instant to instant.

Actually at one point it occurred to me this duality that:

1 year seeing the illusion of a permanent self > 100 years not seeing the illusion of a permanent self.

But it's that in reality both are the same thing. Is this the Buddha nature, the one that is always present?

@Tabula Rasa @Sovereign

Something I've come to realize, the world is like the ocean, it hold all forms of life and yet it remains, life above it is no different. To your post If we are on the same page I get what you mean; we are constantly being told who or what to be, crystalizing these odd concepts which in reality are abstracts. If you think about what we value for example is it really our own? For example, recently I watched a video about virginity and how it is perceived as a bad thing and yet is loaded with double standards. To put it simple, all of this is a product of a mind that created mechanism of control, a kind of control that stops us from being what we naturally are what we were always "spirit".

 

[GGWP]

The ship of Theseus dilemma of the biological body only applies to the structural proteins. The main alteration to the self is aging which is your body trying to replicate increasingly damaged genomic templates. There are certain underlying patterns that remain stable through life, enough to constitute a solid identity. Nuclear somatic DNA (what is usually considered when one talks about 'genes') remains constant enough throughout life (beleaguered by cancer/mutation), but generally speaking your body is rebuilt according to the same template. Core brain patterns such as the Default Mode Network, Limbic System and Self-reference networks remain stable. Personality remains remarkably stable across a lifetime, as do attachment style and beliefs about the world. You can think of new information rebuffing the personality core, which is fundamentally evolutionary strategy. Ergo your 'self' is a pattern localized in your body, replicated with relative stability in your vessel until death, so it's not accurate to say that you are always changing on a fundamental level. It's more accurate to suggest that new information fortifies a pre-eminent self that is 'dressed up' with new beliefs appropriate for the current environment, as per plasticity.

The materialist perspective at least posits that you are a coalition of micro-organisms that have engaged in a symbiotic treaty. This 'United Nations' of your body presents a corpus to your mind, adopting a survival strategy that complements the physical features attributed to you through genetics.

Religion however is certainly a force for good. I always say that religion is physiological rather than ideological temperament because it can 'buffer' social defeat through belief in higher power, this has been demonstrated quite frequently in studies where religion boosts parietal, prefrontal, limbic and neuroplastic systems. Beliving in (really believing, understanding and digesting religious message as fundamental—vipassanā) can actualize brain changes, so it is truth! Believe hard enough in Buddhist teachings and you might just reach enlightenment.

 

[Two-jay]

The ship of Theseus dilemma of the biological body only applies to the structural proteins. The main alteration to the self is aging which is your body trying to replicate increasingly damaged genomic templates. There are certain underlying patterns that remain stable through life, enough to constitute a solid identity. Nuclear somatic DNA (what is usually considered when one talks about 'genes') remains constant enough throughout life (beleaguered by cancer/mutation), but generally speaking your body is rebuilt according to the same template. Core brain patterns such as the Default Mode Network, Limbic System and Self-reference networks remain stable. Personality remains remarkably stable across a lifetime, as do attachment style and beliefs about the world. You can think of new information rebuffing the personality core, which is fundamentally evolutionary strategy. Ergo your 'self' is a pattern localized in your body, replicated with relative stability in your vessel until death, so it's not accurate to say that you are always changing on a fundamental level. It's more accurate to suggest that new information fortifies a pre-eminent self that is 'dressed up' with new beliefs appropriate for the current environment, as per plasticity.

The materialist perspective at least posits that you are a coalition of micro-organisms that have engaged in a symbiotic treaty. This 'United Nations' of your body presents a corpus to your mind, adopting a survival strategy that complements the physical features attributed to you through genetics.

Religion however is certainly a force for good. I always say that religion is physiological rather than ideological temperament because it can 'buffer' social defeat through belief in higher power, this has been demonstrated quite frequently in studies where religion boosts parietal, prefrontal, limbic and neuroplastic systems. Beliving in (really believing, understanding and digesting religious message as fundamental—vipassanā) can actualize brain changes, so it is truth! Believe hard enough in Buddhist teachings and you might just reach enlightenment.

It is not so much about a biological continuity, but a psychological one deeply base on subconsciously held beliefs about who I supposedly am, the role I have in this world, and the stories I tell myself about my experiences, trauma, and all of that. When I say it felt like dying it was because there was an emptiness to this—a lack of inherent existence—to all of these identities in the sense that there was no "I" in charge of aspiring these roles, but it was a multitude of conditions the ones who did it.

In other words, the lack or non-existence of a central self or soul behind this body. Obviously, biology and so on have designed us this way, but at the same time, not being able to be aware of this illusion brings tremendous psychological suffering sometimes.

 

[Queen Belle]

@

@Tabula Rasa @

@Sovereign

how these guys talk about users in private.

 

[newsincerity]

Everything, absolutely all the information the senses receive manufactures the illusion of a permanent self. Emotions, feelings, thoughts, beliefs, all of these things freeze with time creeping in, giving the illusion that it has always been the same person who has been experiencing life.

are we as consciousness the sum of acuteness of our senses multiplied by experience?
I do think there is a correlation

 

[TenzenT]

This is peak whitepill, @newsincerity @Two-jay @GGWP [USER=10]@Sovereign @autistic_tendencies[/USER] @Zygo=cheekbone @LOOKISM-LOGIC @Tabula Rasa
Single-handedly increasing the forum's IQ, just like Blackpill creates a foundation in looksmaxxing and biology for further study, or Berserk can serve as a modern bible since it links Christianity as the false messiah, causality versus inner force, Buddhism, archetypes through the characters, cycles of pain, and so much more. If Berserk were finished, it would represent peak art and literature. Whitepill's inevitable expansion would link several maps of reality and meaning simultaneously, giving topics in religion, philosophy, spirituality, psychology, and biology to study—all interlinked.

 

[Two-jay]

This is peak whitepill, @newsincerity @Two-jay @GGWP [USER=10]@Sovereign @autistic_tendencies[/USER] @Zygo=cheekbone @LOOKISM-LOGIC @Tabula Rasa
Single-handedly increasing the forum's IQ, just like Blackpill creates a foundation in looksmaxxing and biology for further study, or Berserk can serve as a modern bible since it links Christianity as the false messiah, causality versus inner force, Buddhism, archetypes through the characters, cycles of pain, and so much more. If Berserk were finished, it would represent peak art and literature. Whitepill's inevitable expansion would link several maps of reality and meaning simultaneously, giving topics in religion, philosophy, spirituality, psychology, and biology to study—all interlinked.

There is no "Whitepill" to be found here. Everything that I wrote about above? Bullshit. If so, it should make you all be more pessimistic because our lives are constanly hanging from a thread stretched over the abyss although I guess this is pretty evident for you all by now. Identity is a fragile construct. Pain is a mechanism that encourages the emergence of mental narratives with the sole purpose of providing an explanation for why something is happening in relation to the past, and as such, it is what gives rise to neurosis purely propagated by thought. Therefore, personal history is an empty construct because it depends on pure interpretations given to memories, where interpretations form the so-called “personal narrative” that revolves around an “I.”​

This was a psychological death, a mourning of the person I used to be before the illness struck. I think that happened was that two months ago I was still operating on the old psychological structure of the person I used to be four years ago. So given that I had changed a fucking lot psychologically, and that there was no way for the mind to connect who I used to be to who I am now, maybe there was this realization that the person I think I was is already dead. I m already operating under a new psychological structure (beliefs, experiences, and so on) completely different from the one I had four years ago.

Can you even say a optimistic thing about this?

Most people have the opportunity to enjoy a constant sense of self... but those struck by tragedy and pain, I don't think so.

 

[Two-jay]

It is you dulling the DMN through breathwork etc. that makes the brain strive for energy efficiency again, aka its metaheuristics is disabled (For the time being). Meaning conceptual labels are stripped away (Its not just yourself percieving "yourself" differently, you percieve everything you interact with differently aka your mode of cognition is no longer object oriented). As you can tell the brain wants to be in energy equilibrium and so if you stop doing these practicies you will once again go back to your notion of permanent self. This is just the neurochemical/ thermodynamic perspective of course. Buddhist doctrines on this aspect are as multifarious as their schools. I think it is enough to understand the utilty of such a mode of being rather than dwell too long on the metaphysics behind it, unless of course one is sufficiently compelled to do so.

yeah it's like theseus' ship, no river being the same at a given point

It all goes back to biology, brutal, can never let a man drift dreamily through meandering metaphysical concepts and think magically, it really is just neurochems and shit. Worth saying one could argue there is nothing outside of perception though.

The ship of Theseus dilemma of the biological body only applies to the structural proteins. The main alteration to the self is aging which is your body trying to replicate increasingly damaged genomic templates. There are certain underlying patterns that remain stable through life, enough to constitute a solid identity. Nuclear somatic DNA (what is usually considered when one talks about 'genes') remains constant enough throughout life (beleaguered by cancer/mutation), but generally speaking your body is rebuilt according to the same template. Core brain patterns such as the Default Mode Network, Limbic System and Self-reference networks remain stable. Personality remains remarkably stable across a lifetime, as do attachment style and beliefs about the world. You can think of new information rebuffing the personality core, which is fundamentally evolutionary strategy. Ergo your 'self' is a pattern localized in your body, replicated with relative stability in your vessel until death, so it's not accurate to say that you are always changing on a fundamental level. It's more accurate to suggest that new information fortifies a pre-eminent self that is 'dressed up' with new beliefs appropriate for the current environment, as per plasticity.

The materialist perspective at least posits that you are a coalition of micro-organisms that have engaged in a symbiotic treaty. This 'United Nations' of your body presents a corpus to your mind, adopting a survival strategy that complements the physical features attributed to you through genetics.

Religion however is certainly a force for good. I always say that religion is physiological rather than ideological temperament because it can 'buffer' social defeat through belief in higher power, this has been demonstrated quite frequently in studies where religion boosts parietal, prefrontal, limbic and neuroplastic systems. Beliving in (really believing, understanding and digesting religious message as fundamental—vipassanā) can actualize brain changes, so it is truth! Believe hard enough in Buddhist teachings and you might just reach enlightenment.

Furthermore, this “self” I am talking about here does NOT involve biology in any way whatsoever, despite the fact that there is a mutually reinforcing relationship between certain parts of the brain and the matter of identity. I am simply talking about the “psychological self” as something that can be extremely easy destroyed by life circumstances.