Does Israel have the right to exist?

[wait whattt? :o]

This is one of, if not the most, dumbest questions to ever exist on Earth. So so stupid

 

[Tocharian Gangster]

They do have the right to get obliterated in a hijacked reverse Samson option event

 

[ThirdStone]

No state does

 

[Schwarzwald]

Israel is a rouge state and should have been put down in the 60's.

 

[wait whattt? :o]

Israel is a rouge state and should have been put down in the 60's.

Israel shouldn't have existed in Palestine in the first place

 

[Schwarzwald]

Israel shouldn't have existed in Palestine in the first place

What would have been better madagascar?

 

[Histoic]

This is one of, if not the most, dumbest questions to ever exist on Earth. So so stupid

bro , it didn't exist in the 1st place
it was only the European hating them and finding nay place to throw them away
It wouldn't exist of they just kill the jews atp

 

[Schwarzwald]

Car bombs in Palestinian markets? False flags on steroids. 'Chaos for thee, but not for me, unless it's Sabra and Shatila, then oopsie, our Christian militias just cleaned the camps!

THESE FUCKERS STOLE US BOMB FUEL TO BUILD NUKES, RAN CAR BOMB FALSE FLAGS IN LEBANON TO START WARS, THEN TURNED GAZA INTO A STARVATION KILL ZONE WHERE KIDS GET SNIPED FOR CROSSING A LINE AND COUNTED AS 'TERRORIST HITS' WHILE HOSPITALS GET BOMBED AND AID TRUCKS BLOCKED AND YOU STILL CALL THIS A LEGITIMATE STATE?! IT'S A ROGUE ETHNO NUCLEAR MAFIA WITH A MANIFESTO TO REMAKE THE MIDDLE EAST IN BLOOD, FUNDED BY LOBBY BRIBES AND US STOLEN URANIUM!

change my mind...

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

Israel is a rouge state and should have been put down in the 60's.

Tell me more pls unless you just did in previous post.

 

[Schwarzwald]

Tell me more pls unless you just did in previous post.

On what fact could I elucidate you too?

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

On what fact could I elucidate you too?

How do I know what I dont know?

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

Islamistan<Israel, China<Israel, Most of europe at this point<Israel, Israel=Canada

 

[Schwarzwald]

How do I know what I dont know?

Well do you have an opinion on this in the first please I feel like anything I'll say will me turned on its head...

We can start with the Apollo affair (links to wiki) where in israeli agents stole highly enriched uranium for a Israel's nuclear weapons program.

look we can go on and list everything but I don't think it matters to you or anyone who is Zionist.

 

[Schwarzwald]

Islamistan<Israel, China<Israel, Most of europe at this point<Israel, Israel=Canada

 

[Schwarzwald]

Your argument will be something along the lines of "every other country did it why not them"

 

[OgreLTN]

 

[Schwarzwald]

yeah she shouldnt have been joking about bombing bibi I guess,

 

[OgreLTN]

yeah she shouldnt have been joking about bombing bibi I guess,

Never speak ill of the big yahu

 

[Schwarzwald]

Never speak ill of the big yahu

guess so.

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

Your argument will be something along the lines of "every other country did it why not them"

not primary argument. Main argument would be deployed in meme form.

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

Your argument will be something along the lines of "every other country did it why not them"

This is litterally israel bruv

 

[Schwarzwald]

I don't even know what you're implying.

 

[CPT馬冠宇]

View attachment 15309

I don't even know what you're implying.

Alright look, I'm not here to defend the rap sheet. NUMEC and Apollo? Yeah the uranium walked, Dimona didn't fuel itself on good vibes. Lavon Affair was a documented false flag they copped to decades later. Sabra and Shatila? Their own Kahan Commission pinned Sharon personally, that's not me saying it that's them. Samson Option, undeclared nukes, NPT holdout, all real, all on the record. Gaza right now is a horror show and you can indict it on the laws of war all day without even needing to get into what Hamas did or didn't do. None of that is up for debate between us and I'm not gonna sit here pretending otherwise.

But there's a jump happening that I want to poke at, the jump from "this state has done monstrous shit" to "this state has no right to exist." Because if that's the rule, congratulations, we just deleted almost every country on the map. US firebombed Tokyo, nuked two cities, ran MKUltra, propped up half the death squads in Latin America, lied a million people into Iraqi graves. Russia's got Chechnya, Holodomor, Bucha stacked up. China has Tibet, Xinjiang, Tiananmen. Turkey still won't say the word Armenia out loud. Britain colonized basically everything that held still long enough. If atrocity voids legitimacy we're down to Iceland and maybe Bhutan.

Right to exist isn't about the conduct of a government. Governments get voted out, couped, indicted, replaced. It's about whether a people gets a patch of dirt where they're not living at the mercy of someone else's mood that decade. That's the only principle I actually give a shit about and I apply it across the board, Kurds, Armenians, Tibetans, Jews, whoever's next on the chopping block. Two thousand years of Jews finding out exactly what happens when the host country turns, from Rome to Spain 1492 to the Pale of Settlement to Babi Yar to the ovens, is a pretty solid empirical case for wanting a door you hold the keys to. That's not mysticism, that's just reading history.

You can want Netanyahu in the Hague, you can want the aid cut, you can want the settlements sanctioned into dust, you can want the nukes declared and inspected, you can think the lobby has DC by the balls, and it does. All of that can be true at the same time as "Jews, like every other people on earth, get a homeland." Those are two different claims and collapsing them into one is where the argument goes off the rails. Indict the state, prosecute the crimes, strip the money, I'm with you on damn near all of it. But the move from there to "this one specific ethnic group is the one group that doesn't get self-determination" isn't some sharp anti-imperialist take, it's just the oldest song on earth with a new verse.

 

[Schwarzwald]

Alright look, I'm not here to defend the rap sheet. NUMEC and Apollo? Yeah the uranium walked, Dimona didn't fuel itself on good vibes. Lavon Affair was a documented false flag they copped to decades later. Sabra and Shatila? Their own Kahan Commission pinned Sharon personally, that's not me saying it that's them. Samson Option, undeclared nukes, NPT holdout, all real, all on the record. Gaza right now is a horror show and you can indict it on the laws of war all day without even needing to get into what Hamas did or didn't do. None of that is up for debate between us and I'm not gonna sit here pretending otherwise.

But there's a jump happening that I want to poke at, the jump from "this state has done monstrous shit" to "this state has no right to exist." Because if that's the rule, congratulations, we just deleted almost every country on the map. US firebombed Tokyo, nuked two cities, ran MKUltra, propped up half the death squads in Latin America, lied a million people into Iraqi graves. Russia's got Chechnya, Holodomor, Bucha stacked up. China has Tibet, Xinjiang, Tiananmen. Turkey still won't say the word Armenia out loud. Britain colonized basically everything that held still long enough. If atrocity voids legitimacy we're down to Iceland and maybe Bhutan.

Right to exist isn't about the conduct of a government. Governments get voted out, couped, indicted, replaced. It's about whether a people gets a patch of dirt where they're not living at the mercy of someone else's mood that decade. That's the only principle I actually give a shit about and I apply it across the board, Kurds, Armenians, Tibetans, Jews, whoever's next on the chopping block. Two thousand years of Jews finding out exactly what happens when the host country turns, from Rome to Spain 1492 to the Pale of Settlement to Babi Yar to the ovens, is a pretty solid empirical case for wanting a door you hold the keys to. That's not mysticism, that's just reading history.

You can want Netanyahu in the Hague, you can want the aid cut, you can want the settlements sanctioned into dust, you can want the nukes declared and inspected, you can think the lobby has DC by the balls, and it does. All of that can be true at the same time as "Jews, like every other people on earth, get a homeland." Those are two different claims and collapsing them into one is where the argument goes off the rails. Indict the state, prosecute the crimes, strip the money, I'm with you on damn near all of it. But the move from there to "this one specific ethnic group is the one group that doesn't get self-determination" isn't some sharp anti-imperialist take, it's just the oldest song on earth with a new verse.

(I knew you would.)

notice how the question was about a state and you turned it into a question about an ethnicity. those aren't the same thing and that's doing a lot of work in your post.

the question is does Israel function as a viable sovereign state or is it a geopolitical life support patient. and the answer is pretty clearly the latter. remove US veto cover at the UN and it's been condemned and sanctioned into pariah status twenty years ago. remove the $4bn annual military subsidy and the IDF's operational capacity looks very different. remove diplomatic protection and the ICC case isn't a slow walk it's a sprint. no other state on earth requires one patron to basically co-sign its existence indefinitely just to stay functional. that's not sovereignty that's a dependency dressed up as a country.

And before the "every country has allies" reply, there's a difference between alliances and life support. france doesn't need the US to veto its right to exist every other tuesday at the security council.

the jewish self determination thing is a separate question. but you can believe jews deserve safety and self determination and also believe this specific implementation is a failed state propped up by external subsidy rather than actual legitimacy. those aren't in conflict.

 

[Kevin_Logan]

Israel has the right of exist, but not tue jews