Discussion Is good necessary for evil, or are they independent?

[deaf_judger]

I was talking to a foid, and the conversation somehow went to the problem of evil. She said: "Evil is necessary because it gives good meaning." But, does something need to have meaning to exist?

In Eden, we had no knowledge of good or evil(until the fruit was consumed) but it was very good and sinless. Therefore: Good is independent of evil, and evil exists because ?
What are your thoughts?

 

[Loner]

they’re independent and man made constructs for the purpose of societal control and entirely subjective

a culture decides what’s good and evil depending on what they value, but there’s still no objectivity to it

is a lion evil for chasing down a gazelle to feed itself?

it’s a matter of perspective

 

[Schwarzwald]

I was talking to a foid, and the conversation somehow went to the problem of evil. She said: "Evil is necessary because it gives good meaning." But, does something need to have meaning to exist?

In Eden, we had no knowledge of good or evil(until the fruit was consumed) but it was very good and sinless. Therefore: Good is independent of evil, and evil exists because ?
What are your thoughts?

honestly, are you even asking this with a straight face? you’re basically trying to measure temperature without a thermometer. saying eden was "good" before the fruit is a total paradox because if "evil" doesn't exist yet, "good" isn't a concept—it's just the default setting.
it’s like trying to describe "up" if "down" never existed; you'd just be floating in a void with no words for direction. or like math before we discovered the number 0—without parameters, nodes, or data points to compare things to, the whole conversation is basically pointless.
even jung would tell you that light only becomes visible when it hits an object and creates a shadow. you can’t plot a graph with only one dot, and you can't call something "hot" if "cold" isn't even a possibility yet. you’re just using a post-fruit brain to project a measurement onto a state that had no scales to begin with.

 

[Schwarzwald]

they’re independent and man made constructs for the purpose of societal control and entirely subjective

a culture decides what’s good and evil depending on what they value, but there’s still no objectivity to it

is a lion evil for chasing down a gazelle to feed itself?

it’s a matter of perspective

This.

 

[deaf_judger]

it’s like trying to describe "up" if "down" never existed; you'd just be floating in a void with no words for direction. or like math before we discovered the number 0—without parameters, nodes, or data points to compare things to, the whole conversation is basically pointless.

Yep. We need down to describe up, but i would still be moving in a direction, even if i dont have the words to name it. The inhabitants of Eden dont need a word for "good" because they are living it.

or like math before we discovered the number 0—without parameters, nodes, or data points to compare things to, the whole conversation is basically pointless.

But, the quantities were still real? 0 still existed

 

[deaf_judger]

And now, I have another quesiton: Is good a state of being, or is it a category of judgement?

 

[Schwarzwald]

Yep. We need down to describe up, but i would still be moving in a direction, even if i dont have the words to name it. The inhabitants of Eden dont need a word for "good" because they are living it.

But, the quantities were still real? 0 still existed

bro you’re confusing objective quantities with subjective value. yeah, "zero" as a quantity existed before we named it, but "Good" isn't a physical constant like gravity. it’s a category of judgment. until we can pull out a "Good-o-meter" and measure the frequency of an action, we’re talking about human interpretation, not physics.


you’re basically arguing that the scenery is the same thing as the map. the scenery (reality) is just there; the map (Good/Evil) is what we draw to survive it. if you aren't willing to be the master of your own universe and dictate those principles, you're just letting the environment choose for you.


Like Evola says—you have to ride the tiger. you don't wait for the world to tell you what's "Good" as if it’s some hidden treasure; you become the Ubermensch who stands on their own principles and defines the scale themselves. otherwise, you’re just a passenger in a void pretending there’s a GPS telling you where to go.

 

[Schwarzwald]

And now, I have another quesiton: Is good a state of being, or is it a category of judgement?

Again good isn't like a state of matter, it's not a solid or a liquid. If you really wanna think about it as something like that, think of it as quantum, from a higher realm of reality.