Me having a smoke

[Suigin Trismegistus]

Sometimes you just have to unwind after a long day.

 

[ZZEBRA813]

you after eating that big juicy cheese whopper from burger king

 

[incelkingkong]

you after eating that big juicy cheese whopper from burger king

 

[Schwarzwald]

Sometimes you just have to unwind after a long day.

Smoking is based and raises your testosterone. Enjoy king.

 

[newsincerity]

Smoking is based and raises your testosterone. Enjoy king.
View attachment 13627

toxin in bloodstream=>increased need for antioxidants=>testosterone released into the blood=>less testosterone, it gets used up
this is basic sv3rige biochemistry

 

[Schwarzwald]

toxin in bloodstream=>increased need for antioxidants=>testosterone released into the blood=>less testosterone, it gets used up
this is basic sv3rige biochemistry

Your "bro-science" logic that doesn't actually reflect how human biology works.

That’s not how endocrinology works. If 'toxins' or 'oxidative stress' raised testosterone, then being sick with the flu or having alcohol poisoning would make your T-levels skyrocket. In reality, actual toxins crash your testosterone because the body shifts into survival mode (cortisol).

Nicotine raises T because it’s a chemical stimulant that blocks the aromatase enzyme (which stops T from turning into estrogen) and triggers the brain to signal for more production. It’s a specific pharmacological effect, not a 'panic response' to being poisoned.

It’s about Aromatase and LH, not "toxin detection."

Smoke, chew, the gum, the patch, or vape; nicotine will raise your T. It's a Nootropic and a stimulant, I'm not saying everything in a cigarette is good for you that's absurd but what I said stands.

 

[newsincerity]

Your "bro-science" logic that doesn't actually reflect how human biology works.

That’s not how endocrinology works. If 'toxins' or 'oxidative stress' raised testosterone, then being sick with the flu or having alcohol poisoning would make your T-levels skyrocket. In reality, actual toxins crash your testosterone because the body shifts into survival mode (cortisol).

Nicotine raises T because it’s a chemical stimulant that blocks the aromatase enzyme (which stops T from turning into estrogen) and triggers the brain to signal for more production. It’s a specific pharmacological effect, not a 'panic response' to being poisoned.

It’s about Aromatase and LH, not "toxin detection."

Smoke, chew, the gum, the patch, or vape; nicotine will raise your T. It's a Nootropic and a stimulant, I'm not saying everything in a cigarette is good for you that's absurd but what I said stands.

are you natty if you lift and smoke

 

[Schwarzwald]

are you natty if you lift and smoke

That truly is the question now isn't it? Everyone should be adding a patch to their stack.

 

[rentier]

Nicotine raises T because it’s a chemical stimulant that blocks the aromatase enzyme (which stops T from turning into estrogen) and triggers the brain to signal for more production. It’s a specific pharmacological effect, not a 'panic response' to being poisoned.

Does it circumvent tolerance build up and actually increase the baseline level of testosterone? Do you get a free candy and not the one you have to take every day just to return to the "old normality"?

That's how it usually goes with drugs, you end up hooked up to them with no real benefit and with lower baseline level of whatever biomolecular response it triggers.

Regardless if nicotine is good or bad, did you guys know that caffeine is produced by plants to kill off bugs and small animals? And humans be like give me more of this poison. Sipping tea is just too comfy to give up though and I decided to hell with it.

 

[Schwarzwald]

Does it circumvent tolerance build up and actually increase the baseline level of testosterone? Do you get a free candy and not the one you have to take every day just to return to the "old normality"?

That's how it usually goes with drugs, you end up hooked up to them with no real benefit and with lower baseline level of whatever biomolecular response it triggers.

Regardless if nicotine is good or bad, did you guys know that caffeine is produced by plants to kill off bugs and small animals? And humans be like give me more of this poison. Sipping tea is just too comfy to give up though and I decided to hell with it.

You’re right about the old normality for things like dopamine, but hormones like testosterone don't always follow that same downward spiral.

The data (like the NHANES studies) shows that even long-term smokers consistently maintain higher total and free testosterone levels than non-smokers. It’s not a temporary spike that crashes below baseline; it’s a sustained shift in how the body processes hormones while nicotine is present.

Specifically, it’s not 'free candy', it’s a trade off.

The gain: Nicotine inhibits the aromatase enzyme (which stops T from converting into Estrogen). As long as you have nicotine in your system, that 'block' is active.

The cost: You aren't getting a lower baseline T, but you are getting trashed vascular health and higher cortisol, which basically cancels out any benefit the extra T would give you.

The 'cancel out' effect only really applies to smokers because the toxins in the smoke wreck their heart and lungs. If you're talking about pure nicotine (gum/patches), you get the hormonal bump the aromatase inhibition and the LH spike without the 'poison' that crashes your physical performance. It’s not about 'scaring' the body; it’s a specific pharmacological trigger that changes how the body handles T.

And yeah, the caffeine/pesticide thing is a wild fact, but it just proves the point: humans have evolved to interact with these plant compounds in very specific ways that go way beyond just 'poisoning' us.

In the end no one's putting a cig in your mouth, a patch on your arm, a sarm in your stack , or a shot in your bum, and everyone's body is different in how it handles thing. We are talking about health philosophy at this point and sovereign people can do as they please and maybe get a little t bump while they are at it. I have this argument every few years with some health guru who doesn't want to here about how nicotine is good for you.



TL:DR
Nicotine goodsmoking not so good

Chewing coca leaf good, snorting coke not that good, smoking crack bad.

 

[rentier]

The gain: Nicotine inhibits the aromatase enzyme (which stops T from converting into Estrogen). As long as you have nicotine in your system, that 'block' is active.

Well, that is the part that sounds familiar from reading about other drugs: as soon as something blocks something, the organism responds by producing more of the original thing and it shifts baselines.

Caffeine, for example, blocks adenosine receptors, but the body responds by producing more adenosine. So caffeine drinkers feel sleepy all the time and need their drink just to get back to normal. I immidiately wondered if this is the case here.

These things are cool to LLM out, if the person is interested and in the mood for new knowledge. And it always feels futile to try find the truth in talking to people, because the driving force is boredom.

 

[Waco]

500 cigarettes.

 

[rentier]

These things are cool to LLM out, if the person is interested and in the mood for new knowledge.

Asked DeepSeek v3.2 for an opinion and it says smokers have 20% lower testosterone

Spoiler: machinespeak

Nicotine has notable, dose- and duration-dependent effects on sex steroid hormones at the biochemical level, primarily through indirect modulation of steroidogenesis pathways rather than direct receptor agonism/antagonism. Key interactions:

- Testosterone:
- Acute stimulation: Nicotine activates nAChRs on hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis neurons, increasing GnRH, LH, and FSH release, which boosts Leydig cell steroidogenesis (e.g., via StAR protein upregulation and cholesterol transport). This elevates serum testosterone short-term (e.g., +15-30% post-cigarette).
- Chronic inhibition/suppression: Long-term exposure desensitizes nAChRs, induces oxidative stress, and inhibits key enzymes in testosterone biosynthesis:
- Mild inhibition of 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17β-HSD) (type 3 isoform), reducing androstenedione → testosterone conversion (IC50 ~1-10 mM in vitro).
- Suppression of 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3β-HSD) activity via ROS-mediated damage.
- Overall, smokers show 10-20% lower total/free testosterone vs. non-smokers, linked to Leydig cell apoptosis and aromatase dysregulation.

- Estrogen:
- Aromatase (CYP19A1) inhibition: Nicotine directly inhibits aromatase enzyme (converts testosterone/androstenedione to estradiol/E2), with IC50 ~50-200 μM in cell models. Tobacco smoke compounds (e.g., nitrosamines) enhance this, reducing estrogen synthesis by 20-50%.
- Accelerated estrogen metabolism: Induces CYP1A1/1A2 via AhR activation, increasing 2-hydroxylation and glucuronidation of estradiol, lowering bioavailable estrogen levels.
- Result: Hypoestrogenic state in women (earlier menopause by 1-2 years; osteoporosis risk ↑), anti-estrogenic in men (potential gynecomastia protection but prostate issues).

Sex-specific notes: Men: ↓testosterone → erectile dysfunction, infertility (sperm motility ↓40%). Women: ↓estrogen → bone loss, hot flashes. Vaping/pure nicotine shows similar but milder effects.

Health note: These disruptions contribute to reproductive toxicity, infertility, and hormone-related cancers (e.g., prostate via DHT imbalance). Cessation reverses much of this within months—testosterone rebounds 15-25%. Discuss with endocrinologist; avoid self-medicating with TRT on nicotine. Sources: Toxicol Sci (2012), J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2007), Reprod Toxicol (2019).

@Schwarzwald

 

[Hobbit]

This was me at the river fishing some carp the other day.

 

[Schwarzwald]

Asked DeepSeek v3.2 for an opinion and it says smokers have 20% lower testosterone

Spoiler: machinespeak

Nicotine has notable, dose- and duration-dependent effects on sex steroid hormones at the biochemical level, primarily through indirect modulation of steroidogenesis pathways rather than direct receptor agonism/antagonism. Key interactions:

- Testosterone:
- Acute stimulation: Nicotine activates nAChRs on hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis neurons, increasing GnRH, LH, and FSH release, which boosts Leydig cell steroidogenesis (e.g., via StAR protein upregulation and cholesterol transport). This elevates serum testosterone short-term (e.g., +15-30% post-cigarette).
- Chronic inhibition/suppression: Long-term exposure desensitizes nAChRs, induces oxidative stress, and inhibits key enzymes in testosterone biosynthesis:
- Mild inhibition of 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17β-HSD) (type 3 isoform), reducing androstenedione → testosterone conversion (IC50 ~1-10 mM in vitro).
- Suppression of 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3β-HSD) activity via ROS-mediated damage.
- Overall, smokers show 10-20% lower total/free testosterone vs. non-smokers, linked to Leydig cell apoptosis and aromatase dysregulation.

- Estrogen:
- Aromatase (CYP19A1) inhibition: Nicotine directly inhibits aromatase enzyme (converts testosterone/androstenedione to estradiol/E2), with IC50 ~50-200 μM in cell models. Tobacco smoke compounds (e.g., nitrosamines) enhance this, reducing estrogen synthesis by 20-50%.
- Accelerated estrogen metabolism: Induces CYP1A1/1A2 via AhR activation, increasing 2-hydroxylation and glucuronidation of estradiol, lowering bioavailable estrogen levels.
- Result: Hypoestrogenic state in women (earlier menopause by 1-2 years; osteoporosis risk ↑), anti-estrogenic in men (potential gynecomastia protection but prostate issues).

Sex-specific notes: Men: ↓testosterone → erectile dysfunction, infertility (sperm motility ↓40%). Women: ↓estrogen → bone loss, hot flashes. Vaping/pure nicotine shows similar but milder effects.

Health note: These disruptions contribute to reproductive toxicity, infertility, and hormone-related cancers (e.g., prostate via DHT imbalance). Cessation reverses much of this within months—testosterone rebounds 15-25%. Discuss with endocrinologist; avoid self-medicating with TRT on nicotine. Sources: Toxicol Sci (2012), J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2007), Reprod Toxicol (2019).

@Schwarzwald

DeepSeek (and most AI models) are programmed with "safety guardrails." If you ask an AI "Is smoking good for you?" or "Does smoking raise T?", the AI is trained to prioritize the "Smoking is bad" narrative to avoid being seen as promoting a health hazard.

The largest study ever done on this (NHANES III, over 3,000 men) found that smokers had 7-9% higher total testosterone and 13% higher free testosterone. Other peer-reviewed studies (like Field et al.) found the difference can be as high as 15%.

Association of cigarette smoking, alcohol consumption and physical activity with sex steroid hormone levels in U.S. men - PMC

We evaluated the associations of smoking, alcohol consumption, and physical activity with sex steroid hormone concentrations among 1,275 men 20–90 years old who participated in the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III). ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm not here to promote smoking, but again the facts stand. I don't care what the Chinese Ai said. DeepSeek is giving you the 'safe' answer because it’s programmed to discourage smoking, not to look at the raw endocrinology. If you look at the NHANES III data (a study of 3,000+ men which I linked), it shows smokers consistently have about 10–15% higher total and free T than nonsmokers. It’s a well documented medical quirk, not an AI hallucination.
Regarding the caffeine comparison: the body doesn't 'upregulate' aromatase enzymes the same way it does adenosine receptors. If it did, estrogen-blockers used in medicine would stop working after a few days, which doesn't happen.

At the end of the day, I’m not saying 'go smoke.' I’m saying the chemistry is what it is. You can’t 'moralize' a blood test result. If you’re bored of the truth, that’s one thing, but the numbers don't change just because the delivery method is a toxin.