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Yangikent
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Do not kill women, children, the elderly, or monks
Bukhari V4 B52 265

Assassination is a frequent tactic of Muhammad

his assassination of Abu Rafi is an example of his willingness to assassinate non combatants


you are overwelming me with things to respond to. please make fewer and condense your posts
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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He was in 65 armed conflicts. one every 6 weeks on average. saying this is not a warlord is semantical


Oh thank you for killing me raping my wife and turning my place of worship into a mosque
So tolorant


View attachment 5159

Islam is loves to Destroy history because they are just warlord copeaholics
If there isn't a treaty or agreement that protects the temples then it can be converted if an islamic state has established rightful control over the land, the goal isn't destruction of land but purification of said land for monotheism, and it's not like other religions aren't allowed to practice their religion, even during the time of the ottomans when hagia sophia was converted, new churches were still built.
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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Bukhari V4 B52 265

Assassination is a frequent tactic of Muhammad

his assassination of Abu Rafi is an example of his willingness to assassinate non combatants


you are overwelming me with things to respond to. please make fewer and condense your posts
I understand it's a lot but these things can't just be TL;DR'd man, they're deep and complex issues and I like to make sure my responses are correct, accurate and thorough so I don't speak on my religion without knowledge.
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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Bukhari V4 B52 265

Assassination is a frequent tactic of Muhammad

his assassination of Abu Rafi is an example of his willingness to assassinate non combatants


you are overwelming me with things to respond to. please make fewer and condense your posts
I just responded to that hadith in the treaty post.
 
Yangikent
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Somewhat true generally but if you take that statement literally, then you might as well disregard history as a whole, who's to say anything happened?

The context of the wars during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is well-documented in both Islamic and historical sources. These wars were not driven by aggression or conquest but were largely defensive and intended to protect the early Muslim community from external threats and oppression as I've already mentioned.

Here are both islamic and historical sources:

1. The Battle of Badr (2 AH / 624 CE)


  • Islamic Sources:
    • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: These two major hadith collections provide detailed accounts of the Battle of Badr, including the reasons behind it and its outcome.
    • Ibn Ishaq’s "Sirat Rasul Allah": A primary source for the life of Muhammad (SAW), it offers a narrative of the Battle of Badr, its strategic elements, and the importance of divine support.
    • Qur'an: Surah Al-Imran (3:123-127) refers to the Battle of Badr, emphasizing the help of Allah and the significance of the battle in the early days of Islam.
  • Non-Islamic Sources:
    • The History of al-Tabari: While Islamic, al-Tabari’s work is a key historical source that compiles both Islamic and non-Islamic perspectives on early Islamic history. It gives a comprehensive description of the Battle of Badr.
    • The Cambridge History of Islam: This scholarly work offers a historical analysis of the Battle of Badr, providing a secular view of its context and outcome.


    • 2. The Battle of Uhud (3 AH / 625 CE)

      • Islamic Sources:
        • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: These collections describe the events of the Battle of Uhud in detail, focusing on the causes and lessons learned from the battle.
        • Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah": Provides an in-depth account of the Battle of Uhud, including the mistakes that led to the Muslim defeat.
        • Qur'an: Surah Al-Imran (3:121-180) reflects on the lessons from Uhud, including the Muslims’ initial success and the consequences of not following the Prophet’s instructions.
      • Non-Islamic Sources:
        • The History of al-Tabari: Al-Tabari’s account of the Battle of Uhud offers insights into the military strategies used by both sides, including secular commentary on the battle's implications.
        • The Cambridge History of Islam: Offers a non-religious historical perspective on the battle, analyzing its strategic importance in the early Islamic period.

    • 3. The Battle of the Trench (5 AH / 627 CE)

      • Islamic Sources:
        • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: These hadith collections provide insights into the defensive tactics employed by the Muslims during the siege and the role of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) in coordinating the defense.
        • Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah": Provides a detailed narrative of the trench’s construction and the events leading to the eventual retreat of the Quraysh.
        • Qur'an: Surah Al-Ahzab (33:9-27) narrates the events of the Battle of the Trench, emphasizing the divine intervention and the eventual failure of the siege.
      • Non-Islamic Sources:
        • The History of al-Tabari: Al-Tabari’s narrative includes details of the Battle of the Trench, incorporating both Muslim and non-Muslim perspectives.
        • The Cambridge History of Islam: It offers an academic interpretation of the Trench's significance in the context of early Islamic expansion and defense.

    • 4. The Conquest of Makkah (8 AH / 630 CE)

      • Islamic Sources:
        • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: Both collections contain reports of the peaceful conquest of Makkah, including the Prophet’s forgiveness of his enemies and the cleansing of the Ka'bah.
        • Ibn Ishaq’s "Sirat Rasul Allah": Describes the strategy and execution of the conquest, focusing on the reconciliation between the Muslims and the Quraysh.
        • Qur'an: Surah Al-Fath (48:27) references the conquest, describing it as a significant divine victory for the Muslim community.
      • Non-Islamic Sources:
        • The History of al-Tabari: Al-Tabari discusses the conquest of Makkah, giving an account of the political maneuvering and the role of the Quraysh in the event.
        • The Cambridge History of Islam: A scholarly account that assesses the political and military context of the conquest, presenting a secular perspective on its strategic significance.

    • 5. The Battle of Hunayn (8 AH / 630 CE)

      • Islamic Sources:
        • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: These collections detail the events of the Battle of Hunayn, including the initial Muslim difficulties and ultimate victory.
        • Ibn Ishaq’s "Sirat Rasul Allah": Provides a comprehensive account of the battle, focusing on the circumstances that led to the initial setbacks and the eventual triumph.
        • Qur'an: Surah At-Tawbah (9:25-26) references the Battle of Hunayn, emphasizing Allah’s support for the Muslims despite their initial disarray.
      • Non-Islamic Sources:
        • The History of al-Tabari: This source includes a detailed account of the Battle of Hunayn, analyzing the tactical and strategic aspects of the battle.
        • The Cambridge History of Islam: Provides an analysis of the Battle of Hunayn, giving insights into the broader Arabian context of the battle and its role in the consolidation of Islamic power.

    • 6. The Expedition to Tabuk (9 AH / 630 CE)

      • Islamic Sources:
        • Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim: These sources provide details of the Expedition to Tabuk, emphasizing its purpose as a preventive measure against the Byzantine Empire.
        • Ibn Ishaq’s "Sirat Rasul Allah": Offers an account of the expedition and the events surrounding it, including the challenges faced by the Muslim army.
        • Qur'an: Surah At-Tawbah (9:38-39) refers to the expedition, urging the Muslims to support the campaign and explaining its importance.
      • Non-Islamic Sources:
        • The History of al-Tabari: Al-Tabari's account gives further context to the Expedition to Tabuk, discussing the political implications of the Byzantine threat and the Muslim response.
        • The Cambridge History of Islam: It discusses the strategic considerations behind the expedition, including its political and military objectives.





          "But al-tabari was a muslim historian?" You’re absolutely right that al-tabari was a Muslim historian, but his work is often considered reliable for several reasons, even when analyzing Islamic history from a scholarly, secular perspective. Let me list them:

        • Historical Objectivity:​


          While al-Tabari was a Muslim scholar, his approach to history was rigorous and aimed at compiling multiple sources, both Islamic and non-Islamic. Al-Tabari didn't just record the Islamic narrative; he often presented multiple versions of events, some of which were contradictory. This method allowed readers to see different perspectives, including those that were more critical of Islam.


          Al-Tabari aimed to present a balanced historical account, and his works include narratives from a variety of sources. For example, when discussing early Islamic history, he references Jewish, Christian, and Persian sources, in addition to Islamic traditions. This makes his work particularly useful for understanding the history from various perspectives.





          Sources and Documentation:​


          Al-Tabari’s "History of the Prophets and Kings" (also known as "Tarikh al-Rusul wa’l-Muluk") is an extensive compilation of earlier works. He cites and cross-references his sources carefully, which adds credibility to his work. He didn't simply record what he had heard but gathered reports from earlier scholars and historians.


          In cases where he was unable to verify certain details, he would state the source of the report, allowing readers to assess the reliability of the information themselves. This transparency is one of the reasons why scholars from various backgrounds respect his work.


          Use by Secular Historians:​


          Many non-Muslim historians and scholars of Islamic studies cite al-Tabari’s work because of its methodological approach to history. While al-Tabari’s religious views do play a role in his perspective, his work is not overtly biased or apologetic. Modern scholars often compare his reports with other sources to verify their accuracy, and al-Tabari’s accounts are generally found to be corroborated by other historical documents, especially when it comes to the general events and milestones of early Islamic history.


          Contextual Analysis:​


          Al-Tabari didn’t simply record events; he analyzed them within their historical, cultural, and political contexts. For example, when describing the battles and wars of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), he didn’t just talk about military tactics but also the social and religious impacts of these events. This broader context helps historians assess the motivations and consequences of these events in a way that isn’t strictly limited to the religious narrative.


          Historical Continuity:​


          Al-Tabari's work is valuable because it provides a continuity of Islamic history and includes key figures, places, and events that are corroborated by other historians, both Muslim and non-Muslim. His work is often compared with that of other early Islamic historians and scholars like Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd, and others to cross-check the details. This cross-referencing approach gives a fuller picture of early Islamic history and allows scholars to validate his accounts.


          Critical Readings of Early Islam:​


          In his work, al-Tabari does present some critical perspectives, even about the early Muslim community. While his narrative is supportive of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and the early Islamic community, al-Tabari doesn’t shy away from recounting the challenges and internal conflicts faced by early Muslims, including disputes over leadership and the political struggles that occurred after the Prophet’s death.




          Hence, using the given evidence and reasoning, prophet muhammad (SAW/PBUH) was NOT a "warlord".
also this is 2 big posts. separate it in half say you will post part 2 tomorrow lol
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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I could accept you making big posts once a day but you will need to accept just one responce a day
that's fine, but I will keep trying my utmost best to defend and explain the context and wisdom behind my religion inshallah.
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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PART 2:


"But al-tabari was a muslim historian?" You’re absolutely right that al-tabari was a Muslim historian, but his work is often considered reliable for several reasons, even when analyzing Islamic history from a scholarly, secular perspective. Let me list them:

  • Historical Objectivity:​

    While al-Tabari was a Muslim scholar, his approach to history was rigorous and aimed at compiling multiple sources, both Islamic and non-Islamic. Al-Tabari didn't just record the Islamic narrative; he often presented multiple versions of events, some of which were contradictory. This method allowed readers to see different perspectives, including those that were more critical of Islam.


    Al-Tabari aimed to present a balanced historical account, and his works include narratives from a variety of sources. For example, when discussing early Islamic history, he references Jewish, Christian, and Persian sources, in addition to Islamic traditions. This makes his work particularly useful for understanding the history from various perspectives.





    Sources and Documentation:​

    Al-Tabari’s "History of the Prophets and Kings" (also known as "Tarikh al-Rusul wa’l-Muluk") is an extensive compilation of earlier works. He cites and cross-references his sources carefully, which adds credibility to his work. He didn't simply record what he had heard but gathered reports from earlier scholars and historians.


    In cases where he was unable to verify certain details, he would state the source of the report, allowing readers to assess the reliability of the information themselves. This transparency is one of the reasons why scholars from various backgrounds respect his work.


    Use by Secular Historians:​

    Many non-Muslim historians and scholars of Islamic studies cite al-Tabari’s work because of its methodological approach to history. While al-Tabari’s religious views do play a role in his perspective, his work is not overtly biased or apologetic. Modern scholars often compare his reports with other sources to verify their accuracy, and al-Tabari’s accounts are generally found to be corroborated by other historical documents, especially when it comes to the general events and milestones of early Islamic history.


    Contextual Analysis:​

    Al-Tabari didn’t simply record events; he analyzed them within their historical, cultural, and political contexts. For example, when describing the battles and wars of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), he didn’t just talk about military tactics but also the social and religious impacts of these events. This broader context helps historians assess the motivations and consequences of these events in a way that isn’t strictly limited to the religious narrative.


    Historical Continuity:​

    Al-Tabari's work is valuable because it provides a continuity of Islamic history and includes key figures, places, and events that are corroborated by other historians, both Muslim and non-Muslim. His work is often compared with that of other early Islamic historians and scholars like Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd, and others to cross-check the details. This cross-referencing approach gives a fuller picture of early Islamic history and allows scholars to validate his accounts.


    Critical Readings of Early Islam:​

    In his work, al-Tabari does present some critical perspectives, even about the early Muslim community. While his narrative is supportive of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and the early Islamic community, al-Tabari doesn’t shy away from recounting the challenges and internal conflicts faced by early Muslims, including disputes over leadership and the political struggles that occurred after the Prophet’s death.




    Hence, using the given evidence and reasoning, prophet muhammad (SAW/PBUH) was NOT a "warlord".
 
Yangikent
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that's fine, but I will keep trying my utmost best to defend and explain the context and wisdom behind my religion inshallah.
Ok so that 2 big post you sent... its just data about battles? Is there stuff I want to read in there?
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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Destruction of active pagan temples should be, according to islamic law, warranted as a last solution if restricting, repurposing or converting the temple to a mosque for some reason isn't possible. And again, only the head of state of an islamic country can make such a decision.
If you have a problem with what I have said @ 𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖊𝖛𝖎𝖑 𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖊𝖛𝖎𝖑 then please read the posts after. (can't tag you even if I copy paste).
 
Yangikent
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I dont like Jordan peterson, I think hes just as much of a novice anti islamist as me. Hes much more of a great communicator though. Do you think hes better than Apostate Prophet or Bill Warner? if so, I will watch the video
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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I dont like Jordan peterson, I think hes just as much of a novice anti islamist as me. Hes much more of a great communicator though. Do you think hes better than Apostate Prophet or Bill Warner? if so, I will watch the video
The apostate prophet and david wood have no knowledge despite claiming to have studied islam for years upon years, whilst I don't like jordan peterson at all, I will admit he has slightly more knowledge than them. Even if he *was* on the same level as them, muhammad hijab still provides a lot of information and puts it together a lot better than I could.
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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I also appreciate you taking the time to debate maturely unlike a lot of people, both muslim and non-muslim alike.
 
Yangikent
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no knowledge
this is an extreme over reaction. You have exposed yourself as radical. I cannot believe anything you say now. I mean maaybe you said that shit because you think like chat gpt and you are just a bigger scholor than them but they are way more knowledgeable than most muslims
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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this is an extreme over reaction. You have exposed yourself as radical. I cannot believe anything you say now. I mean maaybe you said that shit because you think like chat gpt and you are just a bigger scholor than them but they are way more knowledgeable than most muslims
You can't compare laymen to them, but they still hold little knowledge, when I say no knowledge, it's a figure of speech, but they always use the same recycled arguments against islam.
 
"My mercy prevails over my wrath"
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this is an extreme over reaction. You have exposed yourself as radical. I cannot believe anything you say now. I mean maaybe you said that shit because you think like chat gpt and you are just a bigger scholor than them but they are way more knowledgeable than most muslims
And how is saying that an extreme over reaction? I think you're exaggerating a little.
 
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