Spirituality Oneiromancy - Subjective Reality Megathread

[Agent One]

(I don't think that the "spirituality" tag cut it, but it would do, its close enough for what's this is about)

Introducction​

Oneiromancer: Oneiromancer means "Dream Prophet", or "Dream Mage". It's a word-game title uniting the greeks terms "oneiros" (dream) and "manteia" (divination, prophecy), in order to refer to this kind of magic-path.

Now, the definition of magic that i stick to for all practical purposes is: "The art of causing change to occur in conformity with your will", or, "The use of intent to shape the experience according to the volition of one's own".

Before going any further, it's better to offer some background first, so the curious or interested on the subject can dive in, while keeping their feet on solid ground. The Oneiromancy concept (as a metaphysical system-model) occurred to me as a result of the synthesis of the ideas of these three different branches of subjective reality:

• Universal Line​
• Oneirosophy​
• WeirdWay​

It would be also a good idea to check out the user Triumphant George excellent posts that offers a great overview on the matter of "who you are as consciousness", as well as a lowdown on the subjective reality bit:

• DJ Index
• The Dreaming Game
• Simplified Reality Model

What's this all about​

Oneiromancy has been an idea that I'veen playing with recently. Its founded mainly on the premise of seeing reality as a personal dream, but not only to adopt the idea intellectually, but to actually shape your reality (experience, world, perception, whatever) according to it and living it. All this started when i discovered the phenomenon of manifestation, where after this and the other, i found my way all the way down to the communities listed above. All of these three have some things in common, as they distill the true essence of the experience as such when we look at the fundamental core of the mattter:

• What we actually are is consciousness, experiencing the content within consciousness. This is the paramount, cornestone, root of the matter. When you cease all senses/reception of perception, thought and sensations, you remain as a "presence"; you are a perspective, consciousness, one singular indivisible thing experiencing stuff you realize. This means that you're not the content of the experience, or not even the person that is now reading this message, it's like an avatar of sorts for the consciousness that you are to use and interact with your environment. Ultimately, you are an open space of awareness in which all experience arises.​

This is the where we part from. If you investigate things like manifestation, you will realize that there are thousands of approaches to the matter; what this means is that our experience, reality, is not a fixed structure and is more like a declarative dream world that behaves according to the approach one's own have to the experience. In other way to put it: Approaches to how to use the truth. With this in mind, i decided to take the Oneiromancer path for myself, and explore it.

Overview & Materials​

A couple of fundamental ideas in which Oneiromancy is founded upon would be:

• Non Duality: "not-two" or "one without a second". Reality is an extension of our own undivisible consciousness. We are our own world, but we're also something beyond it as well.​
• Idealism: All of waking reality is a imaginary structure, a dreamed reality.​

The material authored by Triumphant George and John Paolucci (the core authors with Oneirosophy and UL models for the study and practice of Oneiromancy) can be found here.

So It Begins​

This thread is made with two purposes in mind:

• To share this information with everyone else here, with any potential user interested on this stuff, and also to have an space for myself in order to ponder as i go down this road.​
• To also make a thread dedicated to subjective reality as such (Which include what other calls "manifestation", but it's mainly about uniting philosophy and magic generally speaking), so it can serve to share their insights and ideas, as well as personal thoughts and approaches to it.​

It was mostly for myself tho, as i wanted to establish some place where i could brainstorm coherently, as well as a consistent space where other people could also be interested of exploring these things as well.

Oneiromancy as a path have a general goal: To end duality once and for all, leaving behind the notion that the reality that surround us is something apart from our own minds, which comes of course with the perks of being able to shape the experience according to one's own desires. As a specific goals, it's up to the practitioner to decide, whatever they have in mind; If you realized that this life is all a dream of yours, what kind of life would you live with this power?

. . . .

This is a lot to process at first, a lot of question would come in, but let get this show on the road.

 

[Schwarzwald]

(I don't think that the "spirituality" tag cut it, but it would do, its close enough for what's this is about)

Introducction​

Oneiromancer: Oneiromancer means "Dream Prophet", or "Dream Mage". It's a word-game title uniting the greeks terms "oneiros" (dream) and "manteia" (divination, prophecy), in order to refer to this kind of magic-path.

Now, the definition of magic that i stick to for all practical purposes is: "The art of causing change to occur in conformity with your will", or, "The use of intent to shape the experience according to the volition of one's own".

Before going any further, it's better to offer some background first, so the curious or interested on the subject can dive in, while keeping their feet on solid ground. The Oneiromancy concept (as a metaphysical system-model) occurred to me as a result of the synthesis of the ideas of these three different branches of subjective reality:

• Universal Line​
• Oneirosophy​
• WeirdWay​

It would be also a good idea to check out the user Triumphant George excellent posts that offers a great overview on the matter of "who you are as consciousness", as well as a lowdown on the subjective reality bit:

• DJ Index
• The Dreaming Game
• Simplified Reality Model

What's this all about​

Oneiromancy has been an idea that I'veen playing with recently. Its founded mainly on the premise of seeing reality as a personal dream, but not only to adopt the idea intellectually, but to actually shape your reality (experience, world, perception, whatever) according to it and living it. All this started when i discovered the phenomenon of manifestation, where after this and the other, i found my way all the way down to the communities listed above. All of these three have some things in common, as they distill the true essence of the experience as such when we look at the fundamental core of the mattter:

• What we actually are is consciousness, experiencing the content within consciousness. This is the paramount, cornestone, root of the matter. When you cease all senses/reception of perception, thought and sensations, you remain as a "presence"; you are a perspective, consciousness, one singular indivisible thing experiencing stuff you realize. This means that you're not the content of the experience, or not even the person that is now reading this message, it's like an avatar of sorts for the consciousness that you are to use and interact with your environment. Ultimately, you are an open space of awareness in which all experience arises.​

This is the where we part from. If you investigate things like manifestation, you will realize that there are thousands of approaches to the matter; what this means is that our experience, reality, is not a fixed structure and is more like a declarative dream world that behaves according to the approach one's own have to the experience. In other way to put it: Approaches to how to use the truth. With this in mind, i decided to take the Oneiromancer path for myself, and explore it.

Overview & Materials​

A couple of fundamental ideas in which Oneiromancy is founded upon would be:

• Non Duality: "not-two" or "one without a second". Reality is an extension of our own undivisible consciousness. We are our own world, but we're also something beyond it as well.​
• Idealism: All of waking reality is a imaginary structure, a dreamed reality.​

The material authored by Triumphant George and John Paolucci (the core authors with Oneirosophy and UL models for the study and practice of Oneiromancy) can be found here.

So It Begins​

This thread is made with two purposes in mind:

• To share this information with everyone else here, with any potential user interested on this stuff, and also to have an space for myself in order to ponder as i go down this road.​
• To also make a thread dedicated to subjective reality as such (Which include what other calls "manifestation", but it's mainly about uniting philosophy and magic generally speaking), so it can serve to share their insights and ideas, as well as personal thoughts and approaches to it.​

It was mostly for myself tho, as i wanted to establish some place where i could brainstorm coherently, as well as a consistent space where other people could also be interested of exploring these things as well.

Oneiromancy as a path have a general goal: To end duality once and for all, leaving behind the notion that the reality that surround us is something apart from our own minds, which comes of course with the perks of being able to shape the experience according to one's own desires. As a specific goals, it's up to the practitioner to decide, whatever they have in mind; If you realized that this life is all a dream of yours, what kind of life would you live with this power?

. . . .

This is a lot to process at first, a lot of question would come in, but let get this show on the road.

"I'm the Oneiromancer, bow to my dream mage aura."

Go back to bed, king. The dream can wait till you stop trying so hard to sound profound.

 

[deaf_judger]

"I'm the Oneiromancer, bow to my dream mage aura."

Go back to bed, king. The dream can wait till you stop trying so hard to sound profound.

Eh response, I dont think this comment was really necessary.

Introducction​

Oneiromancer: Oneiromancer means "Dream Prophet", or "Dream Mage". It's a word-game title uniting the greeks terms "oneiros" (dream) and "manteia" (divination, prophecy), in order to refer to this kind of magic-path.

Now, the definition of magic that i stick to for all practical purposes is: "The art of causing change to occur in conformity with your will", or, "The use of intent to shape the experience according to the volition of one's own".

Before going any further, it's better to offer some background first, so the curious or interested on the subject can dive in, while keeping their feet on solid ground. The Oneiromancy concept (as a metaphysical system-model) occurred to me as a result of the synthesis of the ideas of these three different branches of subjective reality:

• Universal Line​
• Oneirosophy​
• WeirdWay​

It would be also a good idea to check out the user Triumphant George excellent posts that offers a great overview on the matter of "who you are as consciousness", as well as a lowdown on the subjective reality bit:

• DJ Index
• The Dreaming Game
• Simplified Reality Model

What's this all about​

Oneiromancy has been an idea that I'veen playing with recently. Its founded mainly on the premise of seeing reality as a personal dream, but not only to adopt the idea intellectually, but to actually shape your reality (experience, world, perception, whatever) according to it and living it. All this started when i discovered the phenomenon of manifestation, where after this and the other, i found my way all the way down to the communities listed above. All of these three have some things in common, as they distill the true essence of the experience as such when we look at the fundamental core of the mattter:

• What we actually are is consciousness, experiencing the content within consciousness. This is the paramount, cornestone, root of the matter. When you cease all senses/reception of perception, thought and sensations, you remain as a "presence"; you are a perspective, consciousness, one singular indivisible thing experiencing stuff you realize. This means that you're not the content of the experience, or not even the person that is now reading this message, it's like an avatar of sorts for the consciousness that you are to use and interact with your environment. Ultimately, you are an open space of awareness in which all experience arises.​

This is the where we part from. If you investigate things like manifestation, you will realize that there are thousands of approaches to the matter; what this means is that our experience, reality, is not a fixed structure and is more like a declarative dream world that behaves according to the approach one's own have to the experience. In other way to put it: Approaches to how to use the truth. With this in mind, i decided to take the Oneiromancer path for myself, and explore it.

Overview & Materials​

A couple of fundamental ideas in which Oneiromancy is founded upon would be:

• Non Duality: "not-two" or "one without a second". Reality is an extension of our own undivisible consciousness. We are our own world, but we're also something beyond it as well.​
• Idealism: All of waking reality is a imaginary structure, a dreamed reality.​

The material authored by Triumphant George and John Paolucci (the core authors with Oneirosophy and UL models for the study and practice of Oneiromancy) can be found here.

So It Begins​

This thread is made with two purposes in mind:

• To share this information with everyone else here, with any potential user interested on this stuff, and also to have an space for myself in order to ponder as i go down this road.​
• To also make a thread dedicated to subjective reality as such (Which include what other calls "manifestation", but it's mainly about uniting philosophy and magic generally speaking), so it can serve to share their insights and ideas, as well as personal thoughts and approaches to it.​

It was mostly for myself tho, as i wanted to establish some place where i could brainstorm coherently, as well as a consistent space where other people could also be interested of exploring these things as well.

Oneiromancy as a path have a general goal: To end duality once and for all, leaving behind the notion that the reality that surround us is something apart from our own minds, which comes of course with the perks of being able to shape the experience according to one's own desires. As a specific goals, it's up to the practitioner to decide, whatever they have in mind; If you realized that this life is all a dream of yours, what kind of life would you live with this power?

. . . .

If the goal is to end duality and realize you are the open space of consciousness, when the dreamer knows itself as the dream, is awakening found in stepping outside the dream, or in dreaming lucidly without forgetting what you are?

 

[qqq]

I still think monk life is the best if you only care about positive experiences

Basically they can run their own simulation inside their brain and have fun

enter void state which feels like oding on heroin without the side effects

Or burn themselves alive to assert dominance

 

[Schwarzwald]

I still think monk life is the best if you only care about positive experiences

Basically they can run their own simulation inside their brain and have fun

enter void state which feels like oding on heroin without the side effects

Or burn themselves alive to assert dominance

View attachment 12396

15g of mushrooms can honestly do a similar thing if your ready for such a thing.

 

[Agent One]

"I'm the Oneiromancer, bow to my dream mage aura."

No no no... You should have said "Lalalala i'm the oneiromancer" for a stronger comedic effect.

Seriously tho, did you check out the sources? Is not like i just suggested some unreachable mystical idea that can't be practiced. Is basically aligning with the core of experience doing what you have been doing anyway without realizing it. Have you heard of creating synchronicity? Or DIY Magick? You can experiment if you want and see what it yields.

If the goal is to end duality and realize you are the open space of consciousness, when the dreamer knows itself as the dream, is awakening found in stepping outside the dream, or in dreaming lucidly without forgetting what you are?

The later. If you fully absorb that it is a dream before the dream end, it can open the experience to interesting possibilities.

Basically they can run their own simulation inside their brain and have fun

We can unravel from here. Reality as described somewhere else, it can be said that is "the contemplation of the hypotetical". Let say, you enter a dream, with all of your senses, just right now looking at the image of this forum and typing on the keyboard, it's all the same. And then you step further into the dream, assert it as your baseline world, and never came back? What's the structural difference between the dream and the waking world anyway? Sure, usually a dream is more sluggish, but so are some "ordinary" experiences awake like when you enter in alterated states. If you do the Dreaming Game excersice listed above

Some people here may be familiar with what they call "Perennial Philosophy", which in his usual concept, posits that there is overlap between ideas and concepts across all major traditions which point out to the same truth. Oneirosophy in their beginnings was more or less employing a model that was useful to find the "perennial aspect" across all magick practices: Witchcraft, LoA, Reality Shifting, etc. What do they all had in common? Some observations:

• They're all phenomenons that pertain to consciousness, to which is experienced within awareness. They produced change at some extent, but while in the perspective of the practitioner this was a success, from the "outside" it can be easily explained in ordinary means, or to the most extreme ends, the "changes" underwent seems to ba have been always true, despite the memory of the person doing the process telling otherwise. It's a purely subjective thing, but it's because what you live it's subjective anyway (Thought experiment: Try to change perspective with another person like if you were remote viewing. You can say "I'm now this other person" but you actually never left your own perspective. That's because you're not, say, "qqqq", but rather consciousness inside a body, have the experience of being "qqqq")
• They're all just different ways to intent changes; it ultimately all comes down to presence, imagination and intent. But adopting a model rather than just intending at random can be a game changer, and the difference between something occurring and either then reacting "aw yeah, cool" and losing your mind. To put it simply: Reality depends upon your perspective. If you fully adopt a model, or "way to see the world" to actually format the experience as such, the world will align to it, if not immediately, then gradually. Even with the "standar reality" it does follows along; think, how many things you don't actually experience directly, but rather imagine that it is like that and you just simply hope it's true?
• At the end of the day, is not about what or how, those are fiction or imagined. It's about WHO you actually are, from which you shift perspective, and acquire understanding why anything imaginable, fundamentally speaking, is and always has been possible all along.

The main thing to get here is that your world is actually a private world, a personal instance that you own. It only seems shared because according to the current facts of the world you have accepted so far, your patterns and habits, you have created and structure that seems separated from yourself and limits your volition; but actually, as you are the only experiencer there, the only intelligence at work (You and your intention), you realize that it was a personal world all along. That's because you're consciousness, and the "world" you're living in it's an extension of it. Something like this:

This is nothing new anyway, it has been explored in countless of ways across all time, it is the structural reality, but the difference between Oneiromancy/Oneirosophy/UL/WW with the others is that it doesn't get stuck in purely inactionable abstractions, it doesn't depend on "belief" either, but rather in acting on knowledge and volitional assertion. It ties the fundamental aspect (You as consciousness, the open aware space where everything arise within it, One-Thing) with philosophy and magic. You put the knowledge before the experience, because the experience is transparent.

 

[qqq]

Keep posting you may ascend to Olympus

 

[Schwarzwald]

No no no... You should have said "Lalalala i'm the oneiromancer" for a stronger comedic effect.

Seriously tho, did you check out the sources? Is not like i just suggested some unreachable mystical idea that can't be practiced. Is basically aligning with the core of experience doing what you have been doing anyway without realizing it. Have you heard of creating synchronicity? Or DIY Magick? You can experiment if you want and see what it yields.


The later. If you fully absorb that it is a dream before the dream end, it can open the experience to interesting possibilities.


We can unravel from here. Reality as described somewhere else, it can be said that is "the contemplation of the hypotetical". Let say, you enter a dream, with all of your senses, just right now looking at the image of this forum and typing on the keyboard, it's all the same. And then you step further into the dream, assert it as your baseline world, and never came back? What's the structural difference between the dream and the waking world anyway? Sure, usually a dream is more sluggish, but so are some "ordinary" experiences awake like when you enter in alterated states. If you do the Dreaming Game excersice listed above

Some people here may be familiar with what they call "Perennial Philosophy", which in his usual concept, posits that there is overlap between ideas and concepts across all major traditions which point out to the same truth. Oneirosophy in their beginnings was more or less employing a model that was useful to find the "perennial aspect" across all magick practices: Witchcraft, LoA, Reality Shifting, etc. What do they all had in common? Some observations:

• They're all phenomenons that pertain to consciousness, to which is experienced within awareness. They produced change at some extent, but while in the perspective of the practitioner this was a success, from the "outside" it can be easily explained in ordinary means, or to the most extreme ends, the "changes" underwent seems to ba have been always true, despite the memory of the person doing the process telling otherwise. It's a purely subjective thing, but it's because what you live it's subjective anyway (Thought experiment: Try to change perspective with another person like if you were remote viewing. You can say "I'm now this other person" but you actually never left your own perspective. That's because you're not, say, "qqqq", but rather consciousness inside a body, have the experience of being "qqqq")
• They're all just different ways to intent changes; it ultimately all comes down to presence, imagination and intent. But adopting a model rather than just intending at random can be a game changer, and the difference between something occurring and either then reacting "aw yeah, cool" and losing your mind. To put it simply: Reality depends upon your perspective. If you fully adopt a model, or "way to see the world" to actually format the experience as such, the world will align to it, if not immediately, then gradually. Even with the "standar reality" it does follows along; think, how many things you don't actually experience directly, but rather imagine that it is like that and you just simply hope it's true?
• At the end of the day, is not about what or how, those are fiction or imagined. It's about WHO you actually are, from which you shift perspective, and acquire understanding why anything imaginable, fundamentally speaking, is and always has been possible all along.

The main thing to get here is that your world is actually a private world, a personal instance that you own. It only seems shared because according to the current facts of the world you have accepted so far, your patterns and habits, you have created and structure that seems separated from yourself and limits your volition; but actually, as you are the only experiencer there, the only intelligence at work (You and your intention), you realize that it was a personal world all along. That's because you're consciousness, and the "world" you're living in it's an extension of it. Something like this:

View attachment 12398

This is nothing new anyway, it has been explored in countless of ways across all time, it is the structural reality, but the difference between Oneiromancy/Oneirosophy/UL/WW with the others is that it doesn't get stuck in purely inactionable abstractions, it doesn't depend on "belief" either, but rather in acting on knowledge and volitional assertion. It ties the fundamental aspect (You as consciousness, the open aware space where everything arise within it, One-Thing) with philosophy and magic. You put the knowledge before the experience, because the experience is transparent.

Look bro, I get the 'Oneness' bit—I've been deep in Jung and the mechanics of synchronicity from before you were out of highschool. But there’s a massive difference between a shared ecosystem and the 'private world' you’re selling. You're calling reality a personal instance where you're the only intelligence at work, but that isn't enlightenment, it's just solipsism with better branding. If we’re really all one, you wouldn't need a wall of text and a dozen hyperlinks(to reddit) to convince a "projection" like me that you're right. You’re trying to "shape the dream" while I’m actually trying to live in the garden. Go back to bed, king. Your ego is talking louder than the consciousness you're claiming to represent. Or don't, who am I to argue with your world view, it's just a matter of your opinion I guess.

 

[Agent One]

Look bro, I get the 'Oneness' bit—I've been deep in Jung and the mechanics of synchronicity from before you were out of highschool. But there’s a massive difference between a shared ecosystem and the 'private world' you’re selling. You're calling reality a personal instance where you're the only intelligence at work, but that isn't enlightenment, it's just solipsism with better branding

The thing is, Solipsism is just a way to format experience. Just as psychicalism is, and...any other worldview really. The thing is, there's no such a thing as an "enlightenment", i mean, yeah, the fact of You-As-Conciussness is that (could be it), because is the only thing to "know", or better yet, to acknowledge (If you follow the implications thoroughly) as is a perennial fact that pervade any experience, but that's it. Recognizing the dream doesn't necessarly mean that you will be throwing fireballs at once (It can happen, but not neccessarly), because you could also dream the present circunstances. If you like Solipsism tho, you can opt for it and format experience as such. If you like dualism, or anything else, you can have it as well! There's nothing to sell (It's called subjective reality for a reason), just: "Hey guys, check this out", and you see if it's your thing. As you say, its a personal matter. It's not too much about arguing what is which, but rather exploration trough this perspective trough osmosis, practice and repetition.

It's entirely volitional, just as anything else really, because you're always right anyway.

Go back to bed, king.

I have things to do, maybe later Zzz...

TLDR; It's your choice, man.

 

[Agent One]

Your ego is talking louder than the consciousness you're claiming to represent. Or don't, who am I to argue with your world view, it's just a matter of your opinion I guess.

Also, just to pick on this bit. I don't get why people get so defensive when it comes to "ambitious metaphysical outlook", and then get their cables crossed and talk about karma, "ego", going to hell, and such. Not a single idea i say it's exclusive of "me", because it's something anyone predisposed to opt for it can persue? (It's literally there. Again, you can check out the sources and material if you're interested) When people talk about this things with ordinary endevours (Just a better life) they don't get so worked up, but when you simply entertain the idea of "living life as a dream" with magic with extraordinary visions (metaphysical experiences, going beyond human) then acting smug and condescending serves enough to dimiss it. Only my opinion of course, it's a choice, like any other thing amidst your field or set of ideas to adopt as free will agent.

As a matter of fact, doing the exercises listed above will immediately get you to sense the connection that your mind and your world have, but not doing it and just dismissing it as nonsense will only arise the experience of "thinking about what could happen" without actually trying it out, which only confirms what you already have asserted before entertaining this idea anyway.

 

[Agent One]

the consciousness you're claiming to represent.

Also, on this bit as well (sorry, can't help it, im passionate about this stuff): We're all conciussness. Conciussness is not something you "represent", because it has not symbol, it contains all properties without having any inherent itself, it's the context of the world, not some located aspect of it. In one part is the whole, we're all that undivisible field.

The difference between Oneiromacy (And subjective reality magical practices) and just philosophical musings (either from authors or traditions looked upon in religious context) is that while the later glance upon recognition of awareness and acceptance, the former is about acknowledgement of self-as-totality and the asserting the imagined ideal into life. There's nothing to prove, or nothing to argue over, no answers, only choices. The world is exactly whatever you decide it is; life it's as you are. Dualism cannot account for non duality because it demands willful ignorance of the possibility, but there can be dualism experienced within non duality as a variation. We are the absolute taking shape of the relative.