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Spirituality Grimoires & Occult discussion, an overarching discussion.

Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
I appreciate you taking the time to actually engage with the questions this is the kind of exchange I was after.

Let me clarify where I’m coming from, because I think we’re circling the same territory from different angles.

On symbols:
I don’t think they have inherent power, but I do think they can act as funnels. A sigil, a cross, a pentagram—they don’t contain energy, but they direct it, like a lens focuses light. If a symbol has been used heavily, it might carry some residual charge (like a groove worn in), but that’s still just a tool, not a battery. That’s why I can read Sitra Achra without feeling “cursed”—I’m studying the architecture of the funnel, not drinking from it.
symbols are literally gateways that spit out negative energy
when I was interested in occult I saw Panic put books in front of huge reverse pentagram in his room so the books get juiced up, he knew
now the guy is dead wonder why
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
symbols are literally gateways that spit out negative energy
when I was interested in occult I saw Panic put books in front of huge reverse pentagram in his room so the books get juiced up, he knew
now the guy is dead wonder why
So Panic juiced up his books with a reverse pentagram and then died. I don’t know the guy, so I can’t say what happened. But I’d file that under “residual charge” rather than “symbols are gateways that spit out negative energy.” A funnel can be loaded with whatever you pour into it including obsession, recklessness, or a death wish. The shape isn’t the cause; it’s just the tool.

Anyway, I think we’ve staked out our positions clearly.

KDmWWeFv
 
Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
So Panic juiced up his books with a reverse pentagram and then died. I don’t know the guy, so I can’t say what happened. But I’d file that under “residual charge” rather than “symbols are gateways that spit out negative energy.” A funnel can be loaded with whatever you pour into it including obsession, recklessness, or a death wish. The shape isn’t the cause; it’s just the tool.

Anyway, I think we’ve staked out our positions clearly.

View attachment 14419
Truth isn't always logical
btw putting words from me in quotes at every opportunity feels a lot like AI
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
Truth isn't always logical
btw quoting me at every opportunity feels a lot like AI
Never said it was. I just see symbols as funnels, not gates. Either way.

Well idk how to help you with that? feels like AI we could do this in a discord call but i don't really want to. How would you rather I reply to you? lol sneaking in that little edit last min.
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
Would yyou draw a satanist symbol under your newborn bed? Is that how much conviction you have
Of course I wouldn’t aim a funnel from hell at my child. That’s not the symbol having inherent power, it’s me not being an idiot with tools. I thought I made that clear. You seem to be aiming for an "I gottcha" moment and I'm down to engage but again I don't think you are following what I'm saying. You came off as more reasonable when you didn't add the negro part haha
 
Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
Of course I wouldn’t aim a funnel from hell at my child. That’s not the symbol having inherent power, it’s me not being an idiot with tools. I thought I made that clear. You seem to be aiming for an "I gottcha" moment and I'm down to engage but again I don't think you are following what I'm saying. You came off as more reasonable when you didn't add the negro part haha
arguin for argument sake
cursed symbol spit negative energy is too hard to accept
read edit you can check yourself
 
Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
Still don’t agree with the inherent power angle, but I’m good leaving it here. Unless you have some more stories about panic?
Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake
So real power is within, but also symbols spit out negative energy and amateurs get themselves deformed? I’m gonna need a flowchart. (It really undercuts your message when you add little edits that flow counter to what your trying to warn me about)
this is not the same because the gun pointed at someone doesn't shoot by itself
you are not in control of the symbols
you can check
So if I’m not in control of symbols, why does it matter where I put them? Should I just put a SIG Sauer P320 in my kid’s face instead? At least I’d be in control of that? or would I? You're like trying to concern troll me with the idea of putting my children in danger and honestly that's kinda funny, it's a real weak argument.

I will say at least you're staying on point and brand. Can I ask who this "Panic" is?
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake
WAIT, are you implying I'm a satanist? and didn't you mock Christianity as something something wood cult controlled by jews or something? So are you of the Abrahamic persuasion or not?
 
Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
So real power is within
yes your real power is from within
the rest you can hardly use and negative things corrupt giving illusion of power
, but also symbols spit out negative energy
yes,
and amateurs get themselves deformed?
in the long run they are ugly
the ugly witch-truth in tales
I’m gonna need a flowchart.
no
So if I’m not in control of symbols, why does it matter where I put them? Should I just put a SIG Sauer P320 in my kid’s face instead?
rhetoric
At least I’d be in control of that? or would I? You're like trying to concern troll me with the idea of putting my children in danger and honestly that's kinda funny
no I prove a point and awaken your conscience at the same time
I will say at least you're staying on point and brand. Can I ask who this "Panic" is?
dead negro LHP youtuber
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
yes your real power is from within
the rest you can hardly use and negative things corrupt giving illusion of power

yes,

in the long run they are ugly
the ugly witch-truth in tales

no

rhetoric

no I prove a point and awaken your conscience at the same time

dead negro LHP youtuber
Fascinating!


Jesse lee peterson amazin


I think you missed the sarcasm about the flow chart.

You wouldn't mind sharing more?

“dead negro LHP youtuber” line is so blunt it’s almost charming.

*im going to do the post editing things too*

Awaken my conscience? I’ll add that to the list of things you’ve done for me today.
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
we waste time here
you completely ignore all warnings
rentier @rentier made some good points honestly but failed to point out the ones who are deep in occult are actually more fucked
Rentier made zero points, lol why are you trying to invoke his rambling self back here haha.
200 d






You made some points, I'll grant you that.



I appreciate the straight answers, refreshing after rentier’s performance. But I’m still curious: you warned me about satanic symbols, yet you mocked Christianity earlier. So where do you actually stand? Abrahamic, something else, or none of the above? I’m just trying to place your frame.


But I am guessing you are now wound down, thank you for your time contestant number two.
 
Farewell Fantasea
Joined
Jul 30, 2025
Messages
1,393
Rentier made zero points, lol why are you trying to invoke his rambling self back here haha.
View attachment 14428
you thinking you can separate the book from the author and context seems a bit ignorant to me
and he's right about Metal music being made by satanists
I appreciate the straight answers, refreshing after rentier’s performance. But I’m still curious: you warned me about satanic symbols, yet you mocked Christianity earlier. So where do you actually stand? Abrahamic, something else, or none of the above? I’m just trying to place your frame.
Christianity is a bit of a scam but I think it's the best religion out there
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
you thinking you can separate the book from the author and context seems a bit ignorant to me
and he's right about Metal music being made by satanists

Christianity is a bit of a scam but I think it's the best religion out there
My only point is the feeling of 🤢🤮- the only constant of interacting with people.

*Drops Eliphas Levi PDF*

*Drop 10 PDFs by Arthur Edwards Waite*

*Drops O9A PDFs*

At least Jack the Ripper @Jack the Ripper actually read the Quran, and he read it a lot.
LOL its like stepping in dog shit and now its tracking and now hes bring even more dog shit in with jack.

I guess its time to shit on the floor.
 
The last of the witnesses
Joined
Jan 30, 2026
Messages
1,809
In 1976, Egyptologists and esoteric writers clashed violently in print after R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz’s sacred-geometry reading of Luxor gained new popularity. Traditional scholars dismissed it as projection, while occult architects and hermeticists treated it as proof that temples encoded initiatory mathematics. The real drama was how many later occult schools quietly built entire teachings on his disputed readings.
23cbc022615497560466ce4eb3b
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2026
Messages
238
We need pure positive energy-not to be mistaken with divine beings or light work that's part of the simulation too, you often see people who practiced satanism become devout christians etc. religion or new age is waiting for ppl like this
well yes, because worshipping Mary, Muhammad, Jesus, the saints, et cetera is idol worship and means you are blinded and condemned to tremendous suffer' in this life and the next
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2025
Messages
84
well yes, because worshipping Mary, Muhammad, Jesus, the saints, et cetera is idol worship and means you are blinded and condemned to tremendous suffer' in this life and the next
I know you are not a ..hereditary Muslim, so it won't break your mind as hard.

There's speculation that Islam could be the contemporary of early Christianity before they came up with Trinity orthodoxy:

Westoids rediscovered "Fomenko chronology" on their own (not his invention, but whatever) and are getting a kick out of it.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2026
Messages
50
what does the “real” version look like to you in practice? Is it still operating inside the same biblical framework, or is there a point where even that framework starts feeling like another layer of the simulation?
Christ said to the disciples when they mentioned a man who had been casting out spirits in His name;

Mark 9:38-42
“Do not stop him, for there is no one who works miracles in My Name who can easily speak wickedly about Me. Therefore, he who is not against you is for you. For anyone who gives you just a cup of water to drink because you come in the name the Messiah, truly, I say to you that he will not lose his reward. And anyone who causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a donkey’s millstone was attached to his neck, and he was cast into the sea."

So, I see anyone regardless of how misguided they are the same way that Jesus does; as an ally and someone who also wants the same thing as me in some form. They might just not know the truth. However, to answer the question a bit more specifically, no. I would say that despite my reliance on Christ, Biblical teachings (not the just the words within) and a direct connection to the divine that most Christians would heavily disagree with my 'frameworks' or even call it heretical. Many people wouldn't have a good argument why; it was instilled in them by their local community or their Bible they've been reading. The institution of Christianity has led every single person to believe that in some form they need a mediator between the individual and Christ; along with the added deification of Christ when His entire purpose was to point to His Father. The perspectives offered by every single slice of Abrahamic theology I've encountered puts some kind of mediator between you and the Lord when the entire time He said that it was unnecessary. The 'real' version to me is someone who does what Christ says. Actually does it, to the fullest extent. I don't do it how I should but I know that by looking around me that oftentimes I am the only one I know doing it more, which is extremely disappointing being a relative newcomer to salvation. John the Baptist is a good example of the real version. Jesus is the prime, the intended one, the model.
I’m not here to argue for or against any path — I’m just dropping the books and watching how different minds react to the contrast between “burn the whole thing” (Sitra Achra) and “hack the machine” (Picatrix). Your Jesus-centered take is one of the more thoughtful ones so far.
Honestly probably one of the best ways to look at it. I like this style and this is pretty much one of the avenues I started down roughly 8 months ago now before I had my eyes completely open and Jesus touched me. Looking at everything that exists and contemplating where logic and personal knowledge/experience collide. To begin with, things were only slightly Christ-adjacent but in general the source material was always something similar in nature or the discussion of magic to some degree before He revealed to me WHY magic isn't something that you should be engaging with even if it's real and can be manipulated. It's not because the energy itself is wrong; it's the same natural energy that exists on the earth already and that He uses to communicate with us and touch us; but the motivations behind using it and the fact that you are actively seeking power from within yourself or to harness His power for your benefit is where you are wrong. When you are granted the full authority to bend His power to your will? Then you can freely. Until then you need His permission.

Matthew 10:1, 7-8
"Then He called His twelve disciples, and He gave them authority over unclean spirits, that they could cast them out, and to heal all afflictions and diseases... ..."And as you go, preach and say that the Kingdom of Heaven is near." Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers and cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."


Honest question: when you read something like Sitra Achra that says the entire tree (including the Christian patch) is dead light prison code, does that register as dangerous, or just another perspective to examine?
To any untrained or ignorant person in the faith, it would be at least dangerous on their register, and at best another perspective. To me, I actually can agree with it from the perspective of the author. Very few of these black/white/grimoire book authors have seriously engaged with Christ on a personal level to the point where they can rule it out with 100% certainty; and there's a reason for that. It's not a funny 'gotcha' moment either, it's actually perfectly reasonable and I don't fault it at all. Their first and likely only interaction with Christ wasn't a real one but more akin to an animal in a cage. Someone else's perspective on something they don't understand at all, trying to tell you facts about it while conflating lies with their own observation all while smearing the truth that remains, all most of the time unintentionally. How are you supposed to even think to try and come to Christ genuinely if you're trained from day one from everyone, including the people representing Him that everything and everyone contradicts themselves, lie and they have no good explanations for anything, which makes it impossible to engage with. The Institutional version of Christianity is dead light prison code. You will be stuck here, die and your body will be burned in Gehenna as it is discussed by Jesus if you do not align yourself with the Father. Not the church, the community, the cross, the necklace, the Bible, the tithing, the rituals you do, but the alignment and relationship that further aligns you. None of those matter. If you are not willing to be like John or Jesus and literally live in the wilderness with wild animals for upwards of a month at least simply to develop your faith then what are you doing? Is it real?

-

I find it so odd to me that for MANY folks it is easier to engage with divination like with cards, magic sigil rituals or even demonic-adjacent activities but find it IMPOSSIBLE to pray to Jesus genuinely. I was one of those people; and the only thing I can say is that Satan did a very good job of convincing me for a long time that Christ was out of reach just like I've previously described.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Truth is, most grimoires and occult practices (and honestly most religions too) are basically the same shit with different skins. Different names for the Archons, different rituals, different aesthetics but almost always the same core program, learn the rules of the system, climb the hierarchy, and get your slice of power. Different flavors, same operating system. Sitra Achra is the rare outlier that just says fuck the program entirely. Two different perspectives.
Something very interesting about this pattern you're noticing; the vast majority stem from Gnosticism. Most people aren't aware of how old Gnosticism is and how it grew up at the same time that early Christianity did before the institutional takeover of Rome. Most people do however know that Thomas is considered one of the fathers of Gnosticism because of how many Gnostic texts have him as the center and claimed author with no validation, even less than any true biblical text alongside their lack of contextual alignment with that of the Gospels. The true origin was likely around the same time period of the development of the traditional gospels but could have even started at the time of Jesus.

Kabbalah, while an attempt at being a descendent of ancient Hebrew 'Merkavah/Merkabah' is really just a rabbinic/talmudic Judastic take on Gnosticism, for example. Thus, anything that uses Kabbalah as its basis circumstantially will be Gnostic in spirit. The main patterns you see are the godly spark in humans (Nitzotz (נִיצוֹץ)), the demiurge concept in general (Kabbalah has, funnily enough, the Sitra Achra (סִטְרָא אַחֲרָא), which means 'other side' where evil resides. They expanded it into a place.), Archons (Klipot (קְלִיפּוֹת)), prison planet (Olam HaAssiyah/World of Action (עוֹלָם הָעֲשִׂיָּה)), reincarnation (Gilgul (גִּלְגּוּל)), etc. with one or more changed/removed/etc. to fir their new flavor. Usually that is the creator/demiurge part as it's the easiest to debate, as the rest seem to be something that is visible to most everyone independently. Their ideas converge on the same couple of concepts and they appear to be mostly true.

Obviously in the specifics is where most of these stop converging but their origins are from two places; Gnosticism and a Spiritual Lens of Reality.
 
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