Spirituality Grimoires & Occult discussion, an overarching discussion.

[newsincerity]

Never said it was. I just see symbols as funnels, not gates. Either way.

Draw a pentagram put it under your pillow and see how well you sleep nigga

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

Would yyou draw a satanist symbol under your newborn bed? Is that how much conviction you have

Of course I wouldn’t aim a funnel from hell at my child. That’s not the symbol having inherent power, it’s me not being an idiot with tools. I thought I made that clear. You seem to be aiming for an "I gottcha" moment and I'm down to engage but again I don't think you are following what I'm saying. You came off as more reasonable when you didn't add the negro part haha

 

[newsincerity]

Of course I wouldn’t aim a funnel from hell at my child. That’s not the symbol having inherent power, it’s me not being an idiot with tools. I thought I made that clear. You seem to be aiming for an "I gottcha" moment and I'm down to engage but again I don't think you are following what I'm saying. You came off as more reasonable when you didn't add the negro part haha

arguin for argument sake
cursed symbol spit negative energy is too hard to accept
read edit you can check yourself

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

arguin for argument sake
cursed symbol spit negative energy is too hard to accept
read edit you can check yourself

Still don’t agree with the inherent power angle, but I’m good leaving it here. Unless you have some more stories about panic?

 

[newsincerity]

Still don’t agree with the inherent power angle, but I’m good leaving it here. Unless you have some more stories about panic?

Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake

So real power is within, but also symbols spit out negative energy and amateurs get themselves deformed? I’m gonna need a flowchart. (It really undercuts your message when you add little edits that flow counter to what your trying to warn me about)

this is not the same because the gun pointed at someone doesn't shoot by itself
you are not in control of the symbols
you can check

So if I’m not in control of symbols, why does it matter where I put them? Should I just put a SIG Sauer P320 in my kid’s face instead? At least I’d be in control of that? or would I? You're like trying to concern troll me with the idea of putting my children in danger and honestly that's kinda funny, it's a real weak argument.

I will say at least you're staying on point and brand. Can I ask who this "Panic" is?

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

Satanists in general can be very driven to seek knowledge but extremely reckless
I wasn't interested too much in anyone in particular because I could sort of see they are broken people who hate humanity and want to rebel

Honestly the whole scholar perspective of yours is pretty pointless because the occult isn't about knowledge as normies are lead to believe but personal power
The amateurs who realise this often try stupid things to become more powerful like invoking negative energy and they can injure themselves energetically which can affect them physically too,
the archetype of ugly deformed dark sorcerer is pretty true
anyway I won't change your viewpoint because you're invested in it and I'm random internet guy with cautionary warning and claiming to know truth

real power lies within
this all fake

WAIT, are you implying I'm a satanist? and didn't you mock Christianity as something something wood cult controlled by jews or something? So are you of the Abrahamic persuasion or not?

 

[newsincerity]

So real power is within

yes your real power is from within
the rest you can hardly use and negative things corrupt giving illusion of power

, but also symbols spit out negative energy

yes,

and amateurs get themselves deformed?

in the long run they are ugly
the ugly witch-truth in tales

I’m gonna need a flowchart.

no

So if I’m not in control of symbols, why does it matter where I put them? Should I just put a SIG Sauer P320 in my kid’s face instead?

rhetoric

At least I’d be in control of that? or would I? You're like trying to concern troll me with the idea of putting my children in danger and honestly that's kinda funny

no I prove a point and awaken your conscience at the same time

I will say at least you're staying on point and brand. Can I ask who this "Panic" is?

dead negro LHP youtuber

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

yes your real power is from within
the rest you can hardly use and negative things corrupt giving illusion of power

yes,

in the long run they are ugly
the ugly witch-truth in tales

no

rhetoric

no I prove a point and awaken your conscience at the same time

dead negro LHP youtuber

Fascinating!

I think you missed the sarcasm about the flow chart.

You wouldn't mind sharing more?

“dead negro LHP youtuber” line is so blunt it’s almost charming.

*im going to do the post editing things too*

Awaken my conscience? I’ll add that to the list of things you’ve done for me today.

 

[newsincerity]

You wouldn't mind sharing more?

we waste time here
you completely ignore all warnings
@rentier made some good points honestly but failed to point out the ones who are deep in occult are actually more fucked

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

we waste time here
you completely ignore all warnings
@rentier made some good points honestly but failed to point out the ones who are deep in occult are actually more fucked

Rentier made zero points, lol why are you trying to invoke his rambling self back here haha.

You made some points, I'll grant you that.



I appreciate the straight answers, refreshing after rentier’s performance. But I’m still curious: you warned me about satanic symbols, yet you mocked Christianity earlier. So where do you actually stand? Abrahamic, something else, or none of the above? I’m just trying to place your frame.


But I am guessing you are now wound down, thank you for your time contestant number two.

 

[newsincerity]

Rentier made zero points, lol why are you trying to invoke his rambling self back here haha.
View attachment 14428

you thinking you can separate the book from the author and context seems a bit ignorant to me
and he's right about Metal music being made by satanists

I appreciate the straight answers, refreshing after rentier’s performance. But I’m still curious: you warned me about satanic symbols, yet you mocked Christianity earlier. So where do you actually stand? Abrahamic, something else, or none of the above? I’m just trying to place your frame.

Christianity is a bit of a scam but I think it's the best religion out there

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

you thinking you can separate the book from the author and context seems a bit ignorant to me
and he's right about Metal music being made by satanists

Christianity is a bit of a scam but I think it's the best religion out there

Matthew 7:21-23

I'll add you to my prayers.

 

[rentré]

Rentier made zero points, lol

My only point is the feeling of - the only constant of interacting with people.

*Drops Eliphas Levi PDF*

*Drop 10 PDFs by Arthur Edwards Waite*

*Drops O9A PDFs*

At least @Jack the Ripper actually read the Quran, and he read it a lot.

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

you thinking you can separate the book from the author and context seems a bit ignorant to me
and he's right about Metal music being made by satanists

Christianity is a bit of a scam but I think it's the best religion out there

My only point is the feeling of - the only constant of interacting with people.

*Drops Eliphas Levi PDF*

*Drop 10 PDFs by Arthur Edwards Waite*

*Drops O9A PDFs*

At least @Jack the Ripper actually read the Quran, and he read it a lot.

LOL its like stepping in dog shit and now its tracking and now hes bring even more dog shit in with jack.

I guess its time to shit on the floor.

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

In 1976, Egyptologists and esoteric writers clashed violently in print after R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz’s sacred-geometry reading of Luxor gained new popularity. Traditional scholars dismissed it as projection, while occult architects and hermeticists treated it as proof that temples encoded initiatory mathematics. The real drama was how many later occult schools quietly built entire teachings on his disputed readings.

 

[Pērkons šķīla u]

We need pure positive energy-not to be mistaken with divine beings or light work that's part of the simulation too, you often see people who practiced satanism become devout christians etc. religion or new age is waiting for ppl like this

well yes, because worshipping Mary, Muhammad, Jesus, the saints, et cetera is idol worship and means you are blinded and condemned to tremendous suffer' in this life and the next

 

[rentré]

well yes, because worshipping Mary, Muhammad, Jesus, the saints, et cetera is idol worship and means you are blinded and condemned to tremendous suffer' in this life and the next

I know you are not a ..hereditary Muslim, so it won't break your mind as hard.

There's speculation that Islam could be the contemporary of early Christianity before they came up with Trinity orthodoxy:

Revision in Islamic Chronology and Geography

“Despite the best efforts of generations of distinguished Arabists, the history of the Arabs before Islam remains exasperatingly obscure,” wrote Harvard scholar Barry Hoberman, managing editor of Biblical Archeology. The early history of Islam is in an even worst condition: a “revisionist school...

www.unz.com

Westoids rediscovered "Fomenko chronology" on their own (not his invention, but whatever) and are getting a kick out of it.

 

[ArcRaider]

book is cursed

NO, book is awesome

 

[Ishmael]

what does the “real” version look like to you in practice? Is it still operating inside the same biblical framework, or is there a point where even that framework starts feeling like another layer of the simulation?

Christ said to the disciples when they mentioned a man who had been casting out spirits in His name;

Mark 9:38-42
“Do not stop him, for there is no one who works miracles in My Name who can easily speak wickedly about Me. Therefore, he who is not against you is for you. For anyone who gives you just a cup of water to drink because you come in the name the Messiah, truly, I say to you that he will not lose his reward. And anyone who causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a donkey’s millstone was attached to his neck, and he was cast into the sea."

So, I see anyone regardless of how misguided they are the same way that Jesus does; as an ally and someone who also wants the same thing as me in some form. They might just not know the truth. However, to answer the question a bit more specifically, no. I would say that despite my reliance on Christ, Biblical teachings (not the just the words within) and a direct connection to the divine that most Christians would heavily disagree with my 'frameworks' or even call it heretical. Many people wouldn't have a good argument why; it was instilled in them by their local community or their Bible they've been reading. The institution of Christianity has led every single person to believe that in some form they need a mediator between the individual and Christ; along with the added deification of Christ when His entire purpose was to point to His Father. The perspectives offered by every single slice of Abrahamic theology I've encountered puts some kind of mediator between you and the Lord when the entire time He said that it was unnecessary. The 'real' version to me is someone who does what Christ says. Actually does it, to the fullest extent. I don't do it how I should but I know that by looking around me that oftentimes I am the only one I know doing it more, which is extremely disappointing being a relative newcomer to salvation. John the Baptist is a good example of the real version. Jesus is the prime, the intended one, the model.

I’m not here to argue for or against any path — I’m just dropping the books and watching how different minds react to the contrast between “burn the whole thing” (Sitra Achra) and “hack the machine” (Picatrix). Your Jesus-centered take is one of the more thoughtful ones so far.

Honestly probably one of the best ways to look at it. I like this style and this is pretty much one of the avenues I started down roughly 8 months ago now before I had my eyes completely open and Jesus touched me. Looking at everything that exists and contemplating where logic and personal knowledge/experience collide. To begin with, things were only slightly Christ-adjacent but in general the source material was always something similar in nature or the discussion of magic to some degree before He revealed to me WHY magic isn't something that you should be engaging with even if it's real and can be manipulated. It's not because the energy itself is wrong; it's the same natural energy that exists on the earth already and that He uses to communicate with us and touch us; but the motivations behind using it and the fact that you are actively seeking power from within yourself or to harness His power for your benefit is where you are wrong. When you are granted the full authority to bend His power to your will? Then you can freely. Until then you need His permission.

Matthew 10:1, 7-8
"Then He called His twelve disciples, and He gave them authority over unclean spirits, that they could cast them out, and to heal all afflictions and diseases... ..."And as you go, preach and say that the Kingdom of Heaven is near." Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers and cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."

Honest question: when you read something like Sitra Achra that says the entire tree (including the Christian patch) is dead light prison code, does that register as dangerous, or just another perspective to examine?

To any untrained or ignorant person in the faith, it would be at least dangerous on their register, and at best another perspective. To me, I actually can agree with it from the perspective of the author. Very few of these black/white/grimoire book authors have seriously engaged with Christ on a personal level to the point where they can rule it out with 100% certainty; and there's a reason for that. It's not a funny 'gotcha' moment either, it's actually perfectly reasonable and I don't fault it at all. Their first and likely only interaction with Christ wasn't a real one but more akin to an animal in a cage. Someone else's perspective on something they don't understand at all, trying to tell you facts about it while conflating lies with their own observation all while smearing the truth that remains, all most of the time unintentionally. How are you supposed to even think to try and come to Christ genuinely if you're trained from day one from everyone, including the people representing Him that everything and everyone contradicts themselves, lie and they have no good explanations for anything, which makes it impossible to engage with. The Institutional version of Christianity is dead light prison code. You will be stuck here, die and your body will be burned in Gehenna as it is discussed by Jesus if you do not align yourself with the Father. Not the church, the community, the cross, the necklace, the Bible, the tithing, the rituals you do, but the alignment and relationship that further aligns you. None of those matter. If you are not willing to be like John or Jesus and literally live in the wilderness with wild animals for upwards of a month at least simply to develop your faith then what are you doing? Is it real?

-

I find it so odd to me that for MANY folks it is easier to engage with divination like with cards, magic sigil rituals or even demonic-adjacent activities but find it IMPOSSIBLE to pray to Jesus genuinely. I was one of those people; and the only thing I can say is that Satan did a very good job of convincing me for a long time that Christ was out of reach just like I've previously described.

 

[Ishmael]

Truth is, most grimoires and occult practices (and honestly most religions too) are basically the same shit with different skins. Different names for the Archons, different rituals, different aesthetics but almost always the same core program, learn the rules of the system, climb the hierarchy, and get your slice of power. Different flavors, same operating system. Sitra Achra is the rare outlier that just says fuck the program entirely. Two different perspectives.

Something very interesting about this pattern you're noticing; the vast majority stem from Gnosticism. Most people aren't aware of how old Gnosticism is and how it grew up at the same time that early Christianity did before the institutional takeover of Rome. Most people do however know that Thomas is considered one of the fathers of Gnosticism because of how many Gnostic texts have him as the center and claimed author with no validation, even less than any true biblical text alongside their lack of contextual alignment with that of the Gospels. The true origin was likely around the same time period of the development of the traditional gospels but could have even started at the time of Jesus.

Kabbalah, while an attempt at being a descendent of ancient Hebrew 'Merkavah/Merkabah' is really just a rabbinic/talmudic Judastic take on Gnosticism, for example. Thus, anything that uses Kabbalah as its basis circumstantially will be Gnostic in spirit. The main patterns you see are the godly spark in humans (Nitzotz (נִיצוֹץ)), the demiurge concept in general (Kabbalah has, funnily enough, the Sitra Achra (סִטְרָא אַחֲרָא), which means 'other side' where evil resides. They expanded it into a place.), Archons (Klipot (קְלִיפּוֹת)), prison planet (Olam HaAssiyah/World of Action (עוֹלָם הָעֲשִׂיָּה)), reincarnation (Gilgul (גִּלְגּוּל)), etc. with one or more changed/removed/etc. to fir their new flavor. Usually that is the creator/demiurge part as it's the easiest to debate, as the rest seem to be something that is visible to most everyone independently. Their ideas converge on the same couple of concepts and they appear to be mostly true.

Obviously in the specifics is where most of these stop converging but their origins are from two places; Gnosticism and a Spiritual Lens of Reality.

 

[rentré]

*Moves glasses to show off on a teenager forum, fail miserably and then run around insulting your offender*

Kabbalah, while an attempt at being a descendent of ancient Hebrew 'Merkavah/Merkabah' is really just a rabbinic/talmudic Judastic take on Gnosticism, for example. Thus, anything that uses Kabbalah as its basis circumstantially will be Gnostic in spirit.

German occultists of a certain era treated Kabbalah as a wrapper for Aryan teachings that Jews carried on and Christians rejected.

Nazis were also notorious for ransacking lodges in occupied Europe and showing off "expositions" of what they uncovered. The only way to jump above your head and get a peak is to read obscure texts in German, which I won't claim I did.

For attempting something of the sort in English, the author would unironically get murdered. How the contract goes. But for every "real nigga" there's 50 clowning personalities.

Most people aren't aware of how old Gnosticism is and how it grew up at the same time that early Christianity did before the institutional takeover of Rome.

Gnostic texts were uncovered when... Way after WW1, if I'm not mistaken? No one at all talked about Gnostics circa 1910, the golden time for mystical literature.

There's a high likelyhood that it is a forgery to begin with, but that aside.

Imagine you are a 16 yo girl, feel like magic and buy your first deck of cards. What you encounter, when reading a book, is Orphics, Plato and Neoplatonics, Hermetic texts (a big one), and, of course, astrology - first and foremost.

You won't see archons (military commanders in Greece, what a strange reference), random attempts to summon primordial dragons and, also, New Testament quotes.

I don't feel like articulating any of my thoughts, because seeing you articute yours is cringe. And that's by design, you are here to make Epstein island guests laugh.

Larping as a Muslim is more honorable and consistent than being a magician nazi goatrance junkie mormon (did I miss anything?)

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

*Moves glasses to show off on a teenager forum, fail miserably and then run around insulting your offender*


German occultists of a certain era treated Kabbalah as a wrapper for Aryan teachings that Jews carried on and Christians rejected.

Nazis were also notorious for ransacking lodges in occupied Europe and showing off "expositions" of what they uncovered. The only way to jump above your head and get a peak is to read obscure texts in German, which I won't claim I did.

For attempting something of the sort in English, the author would unironically get murdered. How the contract goes. But for every "real nigga" there's 50 clowning personalities.


Gnostic texts were uncovered when... Way after WW1, if I'm not mistaken? No one at all talked about Gnostics circa 1910, the golden time for mystical literature.

There's a high likelyhood that it is a forgery to begin with, but that aside.

Imagine you are a 16 yo girl, feel like magic and buy your first deck of cards. What you encounter, when reading a book, is Orphics, Plato and Neoplatonics, Hermetic texts (a big one), and, of course, astrology - first and foremost.

You won't see archons (military commanders in Greece, what a strange reference), random attempts to summon primordial dragons and, also, New Testament quotes.

I don't feel like articulating any of my thoughts, because seeing you articute yours is cringe. And that's by design, you are here to make Epstein island guests laugh.

Larping as a Muslim is more honorable and consistent than being a magician nazi goatrance junkie mormon (did I miss anything?

@rentier in one line, you use the appearance of depth to avoid producing depth.

You’ve now dropped all these replies in my thread and still haven’t explained, cited, or even referenced a single mechanic from any grimoire I actually posted. Not one Qliphothic inversion from Sitra Achra, not one talismanic hour from Picatrix, not one chaos equation from Carroll. Nothing. You keep performing the appearance of depth while producing none.

Every time the thread circles back to the texts, you do the same three step evasion:

Change the subject (IRGC to identitarians to Freemason jpeg to paper books to Nazis and secret German texts )

Invent a backstory for me instead of responding to what I actually said.

Call it “context” or a “warning” while providing zero context about any book or concept.

That’s not gatekeeping or erudition. It’s avoiding specificity while implying authority.

If you actually know what you’re talking about, pick one grimoire any of them and explain one concept clearly instead of pivoting again. Otherwise this is just posturing.

@Ishmael, your Gnostic roots mapping (Sitra Achra naming the “other side,” Kabbalah as a later interpretive layer, institutional Christianity as mediation) is still the only thing here actually engaging with structure. Respect.

For anyone still here for the actual discussion: engage the texts directly. Compare them, reject them, reinterpret them ,but actually engage them. That’s the difference between signal and noise.

TLDR
The RR (rentier routine):

>Ad hominem dominance attempts

>Vague historical references

>Unverifiable “hidden knowledge” claims

>Topic shifting

>Identity attacks

>Explicit refusal to explain

This basic combination?performance without substance. Absolutely midwit.

 

[rentré]

You’ve now dropped all these replies in my thread and still haven’t explained, cited, or even referenced a single mechanic from any grimoire I actually posted. Not one Qliphothic inversion from Sitra Achra, not one talismanic hour from Picatrix, not one chaos equation from Carroll. Nothing.

It is just telling that these are your starting points, which you aggresively push on clueless public. Draw a pentagram, say Abracadabra and boom! But boom what?

To quote a movie, if your principled led you to this place, of what use were your principles?

There are normal and established paths for anyone jumping into the spiritual literature and occult practices. What you suggest is random, badly tied to your desire not to fail in the eye of the beholder and carries no point whatsoever.

Won an argument, lost the plot.

 

[Arnold Schwarzwald]

It is just telling that these are your starting points, which you aggresively push on clueless public. Draw a pentagram, say Abracadabra and boom! But boom what?

To quote a movie, if your principled led you to this place, of what use were your principles?

There are normal and established paths for anyone jumping into the spiritual literature and occult practices. What you suggest is random, badly tied to your desire not to fail in the eye of the beholder and carries no point whatsoever.

Won an argument, lost the plot.

rentier, this is the same pattern again, just cleaner.

You’re now saying there are “normal and established paths,” but you still haven’t named or explained a single one. No texts, no concepts, no structure; just assertions.

If those paths exist, pick one and explain it clearly. Otherwise you’re still avoiding the exact thing I asked for: specificity.

Damn rentier at it again with the hits.