Plants based diet wins

[Apollo]

I mean in the grand scheme of things. I eat little as of late, but don't concern myself with eating the best diet possible. I just think it's a waste of money for no return

When you have stomach, skin diseases is better to check, also genes types and family death cause studying.

 

[ijustwishtobehappy]

@Queen Belle You win, humans are naturally plant based by default, for maxx healthmaxxing i am switching over raw diet to Mediterranean, organs and fermented one.

Pretty much.

 

[GGWP]

The same people that advocate for ritualistic slaughter of animals will decry veganism as some 'satanic conspiracy'.

That's why we dont have Ruminant gut microbiomes.

This issue was solved 2 million years ago with the invention of cooking. The reason other animals or previous humans don't eat grains is not because they are unhealthy or unnatural, it's because grains are tied to long-term human crop domestication and processing that didn't exist until a small group of farmers ~12000 years ago planted the roots of civilization.

It's ludicrous how much soy is demonized for effects so statistically insignificant. Here's a quick calculation from ChatGPT:

Body Fat Mass: Let's assume a man weighs 90 kg (which is 30% fat), so he has 27 kg of body fat. If 1 kg of fat can convert 1-2 mg of testosterone to estradiol daily, his body fat could contribute an extra 27 to 54 mg of estradiol (depending on the fat mass).
Isoflavones Intake: 1kg of tofu provides around 20-30 mg of isoflavones.
Estrogenic Activity of Isoflavones: Since the estrogenic activity of phytoestrogens is about 1/100th to 1/1000th that of estradiol, the total estradiol-equivalent activity from 30 mg of soy isoflavones would be equivalent to about 0.03 to 0.3 mg of estradiol.

So, eating 1kg of tofu per day results in a very mild estrogenic effect, which is equivalent to about 0.03 to 0.3 mg of estradiol per day. This is far weaker than the amount of estradiol produced by an overweight man with elevated aromatase activity.

Phytoestrogens do not raise estrogenic activity in males in a significant way. The main reason people avoid plant-based diets is because of peer pressure about masculinity. Bluepillers are omnivores because everybody else is. Redpillers eat high protein because they think it will turn them into an Adonis. Blackpillers eat raw meat because they believe it'll cure their autism (even though carnivore or raw meat diets can worsen autism-related gut dysbiosis long term by reducing microbiome diversity). Whitepillers are unafraid to look at the evidence critically and conclude that plant based diets are optimal in every respect.

Mediterranean or Plant-Based Diets have the greatest scientific backing for 'healthiest diet'. The science simply says don't be nutrient deficient (Those on modern diets tend to be deficient in zinc and magnesium, both critical for male health), be lean, exercsie a lot, eat 1.6g protein per kg of lean bodyweght, and supplement creatine for brain and muscle gains. There is evidence that L. Reuteri can prevent age-related Testosterone loss, so get your probiotics: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3879365/

 

[newsincerity]

editerranean or Plant-Based Diets have the greatest scientific backing for 'healthiest diet'. The science simply says don't be nutrient deficient (Those on modern diets tend to be deficient in zinc and magnesium, both critical for male health), be lean, exercsie a lot, eat 1.6g protein per kg of lean bodyweght, and supplement creatine for brain and muscle gains. There is evidence that L. Reuteri can prevent age-related Testosterone loss, so get your probiotics: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3879365/

I'm a big fan of Germ theory denialism and imo it's the main reason why probiotics don't work,
inner environment determines gut biome

 

[newsincerity]

@GGWP raw red meat is high in creatine
jfl at buying supplimens when this stuff is not even bioavailable and is toxic

 

[GGWP]

@GGWP raw red meat is high in creatine
jfl at buying supplimens when this stuff is not even bioavailable and is toxic

There is no evidence to suggest that supplemented Creatine Monohydrate is toxic or less bio-available than in meat: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8912867/
Raw red meat is high in creatine but also high in toxic heme iron which is inflammatory, it can cause protein overload in amounts typically consumed by carnivore dieters, especially if you only consume muscle meat which can cause inflammatory states due to containing too many BCAAs and Methionine proportional to other aminos.

Palmitic Acid found in red meat contributes to low-grade systemic inflammation. Red meat is linked to gut dysbiosis through promotion of TMA-producing bacteria with high-dose choline and L-Carnitine found in meat: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7048942/ which is a major contributor to heart disease.

It's much better to consume a plant-based diet and supplement creatine than to get it from raw meat. I think the only detriment to a vegan diet is lack of glycine, but your body can synthesize adequate glycine with high-dose Vitamin C.

Not to appeal to authority or anything but most raw meat enthusiasts are either crazy (ie. Goatis) or on steroids and trying to sell you something (ie. Liver King), so I would not trust them for health advice.

 

[newsincerity]

There is no evidence to suggest that supplemented Creatine Monohydrate is toxic or less bio-available than in meat: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8912867/
Raw red meat is high in creatine but also high in toxic heme iron which is inflammatory, it can cause protein overload in amounts typically consumed by carnivore dieters, especially if you only consume muscle meat which can cause inflammatory states due to containing too many BCAAs and Methionine proportional to other aminos.

Palmitic Acid found in red meat contributes to low-grade systemic inflammation. Red meat is linked to gut dysbiosis through promotion of TMA-producing bacteria with high-dose choline and L-Carnitine found in meat: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7048942/ which is a major contributor to heart disease.

It's much better to consume a plant-based diet and supplement creatine than to get it from raw meat. I think the only detriment to a vegan diet is lack of glycine, but your body can synthesize adequate glycine with high-dose Vitamin C.

Not to appeal to authority or anything but most raw meat enthusiasts are either crazy (ie. Goatis) or on steroids and trying to sell you something (ie. Liver King), so I would not trust them for health advice.

Every animal seems to have their optimal food available in their natural habitat except humans
Real primitive people might possibly have better strength aging and health than officially reported but they still have medicine men to treat their sickness so no perfect lifestyle is possible?
Do we just come from a different world with special food cathered to us or did we live in a different dimension or on a much higher frequency and were primarily feeding off aether

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

The same people that advocate for ritualistic slaughter of animals will decry veganism as some 'satanic conspiracy'.

This issue was solved 2 million years ago with the invention of cooking. The reason other animals or previous humans don't eat grains is not because they are unhealthy or unnatural, it's because grains are tied to long-term human crop domestication and processing that didn't exist until a small group of farmers ~12000 years ago planted the roots of civilization.

Issue? This isnt an issue just how we are; we don't have ruminant gut microbiomes cause we never needed to eat grains idiot.
Bread isnt natural, its fucking seeds. Its crushed seeds. Crushed seeds arent naturally-occurring.
Grains arent natural to our diet nor essential for living. Grains have absolutely no micro-nutrient profile ~ It dosen't & cannot nourish you. Its mass, not food.
If you can't live on it alone you shouldnt eat it tbh ~ might be a new theory

Phytoestrogens do not raise estrogenic activity in males in a significant way. The main reason people avoid plant-based diets is because of peer pressure about masculinity. Bluepillers are omnivores because everybody else is. Redpillers eat high protein because they think it will turn them into an Adonis. Blackpillers eat raw meat because they believe it'll cure their autism (even though carnivore or raw meat diets can worsen autism-related gut dysbiosis long term by reducing microbiome diversity). Whitepillers are unafraid to look at the evidence critically and conclude that plant based diets are optimal in every respect.

How is a eating food RAW - all Enzymes, Bacteria, & Micro-nutrients Intact and/or Active going to decrease microbiome diversity .
And before muh plant = diversity. Why do you want antioxidants & literal poisons "diversifying" your gut.

Mediterranean or Plant-Based Diets have the greatest scientific backing for 'healthiest diet'. The science simply says don't be nutrient deficient (Those on modern diets tend to be deficient in zinc and magnesium, both critical for male health), be lean, exercsie a lot, eat 1.6g protein per kg of lean bodyweght, and supplement creatine for brain and muscle gains. There is evidence that L. Reuteri can prevent age-related Testosterone loss, so get your probiotics: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3879365/

Cause their comparing it to the Western-Diet of Goyslop, Soy, Seed Oils, Food of Convenience, & Actual plastic. Every single diet ever is better than the Western, Not evidence.

 

[GGWP]

Issue? This isnt an issue just how we are; we don't have ruminant gut microbiomes cause we never needed to eat grains idiot.
Bread isnt natural, its fucking seeds. Its crushed seeds. Crushed seeds arent naturally-occurring.
Grains arent natural to our diet nor essential for living. Grains have absolutely no micro-nutrient profile ~ It dosen't & cannot nourish you. Its mass, not food.
If you can't live on it alone you shouldnt eat it tbh ~ might be a new theory

How is a eating food RAW - all Enzymes, Bacteria, & Micro-nutrients Intact and/or Active going to decrease microbiome diversity .
And before muh plant = diversity. Why do you want antioxidants & literal poisons "diversifying" your gut.

Cause their comparing it to the Western-Diet of Goyslop, Soy, Seed Oils, Food of Convenience, & Actual plastic. Every single diet ever is better than the Western, Not evidence.

Source: Questionably misogynistic forums and crazy people with brain worms.

 

[Regenerator]

Humans are natural herbivores, Humans chew their food like cows & deer & don't have huge Caine teeth like Lions or Wolves.
This video explains it well.

 

[Chisai]

What about a diet that consist on soups? I can't test this since my mother is hysterical as fuck but I feel better drinking than eating might have to do due to anxiety but I'm not sure...

 

[Queen Belle]

What about a diet that consist on soups? I can't test this since my mother is hysterical as fuck but I feel better drinking than eating might have to do due to anxiety but I'm not sure...

Soup diet is easy on the digestion

Some men quit normal food as they get older and just juice everything.

When im sick or emo I can only eat soup and salad

 

[lunin7]

This looks tastier than any plant I’ve seen

 

[Queen Belle]

View attachment 8840
This looks tastier than any plant I’ve seen

 

[Apollo]

What about a diet that consist on soups? I can't test this since my mother is hysterical as fuck but I feel better drinking than eating might have to do due to anxiety but I'm not sure...

Combine with juices for maxx hydration, only problem is jaw weakening
@Ultimate Subhuman We need antioxidants for glutathione production, raw meathas a tiny amount of VIT C, only works if you are northern european with higher neanderthal genes % and perfect aging and antioxidant genotype, other than that plants diet in, the content of heavy metals in red meat is a strong issue causing veins problems, haircafe talks about in the video.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

Source: Questionably misogynistic forums and crazy people with brain worms.

Are you actually retarded? All things stated here are given facts

Lets Use GPT like you do ~

No direct evidence for Autism dysbiosis and I've already commented on the diversity to be had with plants & seeds. Antioxidants and poisons.

Ive only stated given facts bruh


On Vegan Studies -

On Grains & Their Micronutrient Profile -

• Protein; Gluten is an Incomplete Protein w/ a PDCAAS of 0.25. Effectively 25% of it is absorbed since Its without Lysine. Most people have Gluten Sensitivity. Unusable.
• Beta-Cartene; ( 12 µg of Dietary Beta-Carotene = 1µg Retinol Activity Equivalent | Basic Math ~ 9 µg = 0 µg Retinol Activity Equaivalent = Zero Conversion )
• Iron ( Non-Heme ); Absorption is shit on the Low end (2%): 3.6 × 0.02 = 0.07 mg absorbed | Average (10%): 3.6 × 0.10 = 0.36 mg absorbed | High end (20%): 3.6 × 0.20 = 0.72 mg absorbed. Absolutely fucking nothing & is blown out of the water by Liver
• Phytates; Phytates = Phytic acid which Wheat is High in. Binds tightly to Iron & Zinc & reduce availability to ~15%. Magnesium the strongest bound reduced 50%.
• Choline; In the Wheat Germ, You don't eat this. Removed during refining process.

Calories (kcal)	340	135
Protein (g)	13.2 3 ( Gluten not Protein - Ommited )	20.4
Fiber (g)	10.7	0.0
Vitamin A (µg RAE)	9 0 ( Beta-carotene )	9,442
Vitamin B12 (µg)	0	59.3
Folate (µg)	44	290
Iron (mg)	3.6 0 (Non-heme & Phytates)	6.2 (heme, highly bioavailable)
Zinc (mg)	2.9 0.44 ( Phytates / Reduce to 15%)	4.0
Magnesium (mg)	138 40 ( Phytates / Reduce to 50% )	18
Vitamin C (mg)	0	27
Choline (mg)	39 0	333

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

Combine with juices for maxx hydration, only problem is jaw weakening
@Ultimate Subhuman We need antioxidants for glutathione production, raw meathas a tiny amount of VIT C, only works if you are northern european with higher neanderthal genes % and perfect aging and antioxidant genotype, other than that plants diet in, the content of heavy metals in red meat is a strong issue causing veins problems, haircafe talks about in the video.

Yeah I do understand this, the Antioxidants I was talking about in grains are like Acids Pheonlic & Ferulic. But on Glutathione Production, its made up of cysteine, glutamate, glycine. Cysteine is most high in Poultry, Glutamane most high in fermented cheese, Glycine collagan-rich foods. So the thing is antioxidants arent needed for the production, just the recycling & activity.

So yes, Antioxidants - Polyphenols are needed for the recycling but I still wouldnt eat grains tbf. Fruits have Polyphenols like Flavonoids which im not obtuse too.
I could incorporate fruits seasonally without harm done ngl ngl.

 

[GGWP]

Are you actually retarded? All things stated here are given facts

Lets Use GPT like you do ~

View attachment 8843

No direct evidence for Autism dysbiosis and I've already commented on the diversity to be had with plants & seeds. Antioxidants and poisons.

Ive only stated given facts bruh


On Vegan Studies -

View attachment 8844

On Grains & Their Micronutrient Profile -

• Protein; Gluten is an Incomplete Protein w/ a PDCAAS of 0.25. Effectively 25% of it is absorbed since Its without Lysine. Most people have Gluten Sensitivity. Unusable.
• Beta-Cartene; ( 12 µg of Dietary Beta-Carotene = 1µg Retinol Activity Equivalent | Basic Math ~ 9 µg = 0 µg Retinol Activity Equaivalent = Zero Conversion )
• Iron ( Non-Heme ); Absorption is shit on the Low end (2%): 3.6 × 0.02 = 0.07 mg absorbed | Average (10%): 3.6 × 0.10 = 0.36 mg absorbed | High end (20%): 3.6 × 0.20 = 0.72 mg absorbed. Absolutely fucking nothing & is blown out of the water by Liver
• Phytates; Phytates = Phytic acid which Wheat is High in. Binds tightly to Iron & Zinc & reduce availability to ~15%. Magnesium the strongest bound reduced 50%.
• Choline; In the Wheat Germ, You don't eat this. Removed during refining process.

Calories (kcal)	340	135
Protein (g)	13.2 3 ( Gluten not Protein - Ommited )	20.4
Fiber (g)	10.7	0.0
Vitamin A (µg RAE)	9 0 ( Beta-carotene )	9,442
Vitamin B12 (µg)	0	59.3
Folate (µg)	44	290
Iron (mg)	3.6 0 (Non-heme & Phytates)	6.2 (heme, highly bioavailable)
Zinc (mg)	2.9 0.44 ( Phytates / Reduce to 15%)	4.0
Magnesium (mg)	138 40 ( Phytates / Reduce to 50% )	18
Vitamin C (mg)	0	27
Choline (mg)	39 0	333

I didn't say to eat a diet made of exclusively grains, I just said that the reason prehistoric people did not eat them is that the methods to cultivate them were not invented until 12,000 years ago. The point was to illustrate that carnivore dieters have an appeal to nature fallacy and there is no reason to say that certain grains, such as oats, cannot be part of a healthy diet.

 

[OgreLTN]

Yeah I do understand this, the Antioxidants I was talking about in grains are like Acids Pheonlic & Ferulic. But on Glutathione Production, its made up of cysteine, glutamate, glycine. Cysteine is most high in Poultry, Glutamane most high in fermented cheese, Glycine collagan-rich foods. So the thing is antioxidants arent needed for the production, just the recycling & activity.

So yes, Antioxidants - Polyphenols are needed for the recycling but I still wouldnt eat grains tbf. Fruits have Polyphenols like Flavonoids which im not obtuse too.
I could incorporate fruits seasonally without harm done ngl ngl.

You are a funny nigga. Even if your so-called "diet" was the species appropriate for humans, which it isn't for various reasons (mechanistic data on humans and outcome data on various other diets), where do you think eating that will take you? Do you think you'll become a 6 5 mogger? Come on bro, just eat food you enjoy, your time on earth is limited and is only a one time experience. Stop coping with retarded meme diets and live.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

You are a funny nigga. Even if your so-called "diet" was the species appropriate for humans, which it isn't for various reasons (mechanistic data on humans and outcome data on various other diets),

Show me the Mechanistic Data

And there isnt any Outcome data for an actual Carnivore Diet ( Raw Meat, Organs, Blood, Milk, Etc. )
So you have no need to bring it up. Any and all comparisons are null and void if it isnt comparing what i'm arguing for.

where do you think eating that will take you? Do you think you'll become a 6 5 mogger? Come on bro, just eat food you enjoy, your time on earth is limited and is only a one time experience. Stop coping with retarded meme diets and live.

It will take me to a healthy life - functional body & a sound mind. I don't give a fuck about being 6'5.
Eating the Western or Vegan Diet literally makes your dick go floppy & testicles shrink

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

I didn't say to eat a diet made of exclusively grains, I just said that the reason prehistoric people did not eat them is that the methods to cultivate them were not invented until 12,000 years ago.

Okay then no need to argue this we all understand that they didnt eat it since they didnt invent it.
Still dosen't change the fact we don't & won't have ruminant gut microbiomes

Even if you weren't talking exclusively about grains, grains are still just mass & arent "healthy"

The point was to illustrate that carnivore dieters have an appeal to nature fallacy and there is no reason to say that certain grains, such as oats, cannot be part of a healthy diet.

I gave you the reason just a second ago lol. Non-fallacy.

 

[OgreLTN]

Show me the Mechanistic Data

And there isnt any Outcome data for an actual Carnivore Diet ( Raw Meat, Organs, Blood, Milk, Etc. )
So you have no need to bring it up. Any and all comparisons are null and void if it isnt comparing what i'm arguing for.


It will take me to a healthy life - functional body & a sound mind. I don't give a fuck about being 6'5.
Eating the Western or Vegan Diet literally makes your dick go floppy & testicles shrink

Can't produce vitamin C on our own. All carnivores produce their own vitamin C. The Jaw can move side to side to grind plant matter. Long small intestine. Production of the enzyme amylase in the saliva to breakdown carbs into their simpler forms. Our teeth aren't designed to eat exclusively meat... And a lot of other things. Our stomachs are surprisingly acidic, but that was probably an adaptation to eat animal cadavers left by other predators, not ones that were hunted by us.

I want to add one last point, that can be debated depending on what perspective you look at it from. Humans, generally, don't like killing animals, whereas carnivores couldn't care less for their prey. I know this last observation can have its faults, it's something I'm still thinking about.

And for outcome data, we don't have direct studies when it comes to carnivore diets, but if you look at the populations with the longest lifespans, most eat a combination of meat, fruit, veggies, some grains and monosaturated fat. AKA Mediterranean diet. This, of course, isn't conclusive as you can say that causality can be directed to diet as the factor for longer lifespan, as other things also contribute to it. But I still think it makes a great case against your claims. As well as that populations that consume primarily or exclusively meat have problems when it comes to heart health and general longevity. People like the Inuit and the Masai have this problem, people that you carnivores love to quote as healthy and developed. The Masai have a high incidence of atherosclerosis, as well as the Inuit.

Even if these simple observations aren't enough, there's still outcome data that suggests carnivore is bad. As I said before, we don't have direct studies with people doing strict carnivore, but studies show that diets high in saturated fats and dietary cholesterol, raise LDL. Which has also been shown to accelerate atherosclerosis.

 

[Chisai]

Soup diet is easy on the digestion

Some men quit normal food as they get older and just juice everything.

When im sick or emo I can only eat soup and salad

Combine with juices for maxx hydration, only problem is jaw weakening
@Ultimate Subhuman We need antioxidants for glutathione production, raw meathas a tiny amount of VIT C, only works if you are northern european with higher neanderthal genes % and perfect aging and antioxidant genotype, other than that plants diet in, the content of heavy metals in red meat is a strong issue causing veins problems, haircafe talks about in the video.

But there it's a saying about how people can't live without liquid but can endure long time without 'food' and if you been to hospital before they usually put some liquid through your veins instead of feeding you if you are in a weak state so maybe there's some benefit to a liquid diet but I can't test it due to family, also if carnivore thing comes to mind I remember seeing some animals drinking blood only in youtube before and there's also the meme of how 'certain people' love to transfer their blood and then move it back to their bodies that also makes me think about this liquid diet as a superior endurance diet.

 

[Apollo]

But there it's a saying about how people can't live without liquid but can endure long time without 'food' and if you been to hospital before they usually put some liquid through your veins instead of feeding you if you are in a weak state so maybe there's some benefit to a liquid diet but I can't test it due to family, also if carnivore thing comes to mind I remember seeing some animals drinking blood only in youtube before and there's also the meme of how 'certain people' love to transfer their blood and then move it back to their bodies that also makes me think about this liquid diet as a superior endurance diet.

Yeah, IV therapy is legit. That’s why I inject 500 mg of vitamin C weekly and will add B12 soon.
I’m also planning a 48-hour sleep protocol supported by IV nutrition — basically training my body to handle deep recovery cycles. I tested it last weekend and my face looked way better afterwards.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman]

Can't produce vitamin C on our own. All carnivores produce their own vitamin C.

The Jaw can move side to side to grind plant matter.

This is always not an argument. We have present Canines

Production of the enzyme amylase in the saliva to breakdown carbs into their simpler forms.

Also like production of the enzyme Lingual lipase in the saliva that begins breakdown of animal & milk fats?

Our stomachs are surprisingly acidic, but that was probably an adaptation to eat animal cadavers left by other predators, not ones that were hunted by us.

Your like using my point in reverse. The rumen of a healthy ruminant on a forage diet typically has a neutral pH 6.0-7.0.
Our PH is 1. Like that of a Vulture. That, YES, feeds on carrion & dead carcass. MEAT BRAHHHHHH

I want to add one last point, that can be debated depending on what perspective you look at it from. Humans, generally, don't like killing animals, whereas carnivores couldn't care less for their prey. I know this last observation can have its faults, it's something I'm still thinking about.

I see what your getting at but aversion to killing animals isn't instinctual. Its more taught then anything.

And for outcome data, we don't have direct studies when it comes to carnivore diets, but if you look at the populations with the longest lifespans, most eat a combination of meat, fruit, veggies, some grains and monosaturated fat. AKA Mediterranean diet. This, of course, isn't conclusive as you can say that causality can be directed to diet as the factor for longer lifespan, as other things also contribute to it. But I still think it makes a great case against your claims. As well as that populations that consume primarily or exclusively meat have problems when it comes to heart health and general longevity. People like the Inuit and the Masai have this problem, people that you carnivores love to quote as healthy and developed. The Masai have a high incidence of atherosclerosis, as well as the Inuit.

Even if these simple observations aren't enough, there's still outcome data that suggests carnivore is bad. As I said before, we don't have direct studies with people doing strict carnivore, but studies show that diets high in saturated fats and dietary cholesterol, raise LDL. Which has also been shown to accelerate atherosclerosis.

We'll still be waiting for the study. In the mean-time just dont spew lies about the Maasai & Inuits